Debate between petty Jernotian Mystic and Hierofant from Brinnus "There is no thing without change" "No! There is always Logic. "
Just now I'm busy and don't have MIG or MIG2 at hand (IMHO most reliable source for such research), so I might make mistake again. Please excuse me if I do silly mistake like "Battle" and "Basic" again and I might be delayed for replies of this discussion after it..
Nick:
>
> > I suppose there is no connection between Basic Magic / Animism,
> > Rune Magic / Theism by classic AD & D POV for magic until Cult
> > of Terror was published. (I suppose Nick Brooke said me so.)
>
> Battle Magic was always very much associated with shamans (and ergo
> spirits); the CoT Cosmology was only the start of sorting things out. As
> you recount later, all of the RQ3 animist and theist cults mixed and
> matched between Spirit Magic and Divine Magic. (Others mix'n'matched
> these with Sorcery).
>
I cannot say Shamanism was enough categorized without concept of Adoration, Ecstatic Worship (Enclosure #1, RM) rough description of Spirit World (RQ3rd Edition, ToRM #7) Spirit Fetch. (RQ #3) Though I don't know enough about RQ 1st and 2nd Edition status for it. And in that period. Glorantha seems limited in Prax, and neighboring countries. I don't think such definition is important for RQ...though I don't know how Greg "knew" well about his own Fantasy World. I talked only about my second guessing.
I think if categorization of Spirit Magic was fixed in RQ era, Pamaltela might not become center of Animism...... (I was always puzzled over how Greg roleplayed in Western Area....like Old Seshnela and Snodal's Fronela and Altinela before the Rule of RQ 3rd.....)
If Great Spirits are merely Gods (Genert, Storm Bull, Daka Fal?) and spirits are petty gods in these older RQ setting, certainly shamans can contact spirits relatively equal term while Theists can only devote themselves to Higher Mind....
> This is in fact a major bugbear of mine w.r.t. the "misapplied worship"
> cock-up in 1st ed. "Hero Wars" -- we'd been *encouraged* to explore
> crossovers between magic systems (e.g. Carmanian ancestor-worshipping
> theist sorcerers, Wenelian hsunchen Orlanthi, Arrolian sorcerous
> Lunars), and then the new rules said this wasn't remotely practical.
> (Bastards).
>
>
>Chaosium wrote generic "Fantasy Europe" into the RQ3 rules,
>and introduced the generic four societies and three magic systems (a
>Good Thing), but sans Gloranthan flavour.
I don't want to blame someone of Avalonhill.....(but I can't deny Greg's speech in Japanese Supplement Con hints his complicated feeling toward Chaosium and Avalonhill......) I talked only about my humble second-guess as I said and I don't know anything about intention of the party concerned.
I can understand your position as a main innovator of Sorcery. (My emotion toward it is also complicated....as you shunned Godlearnism (Glorantha Con #4 Compendium)) As a follower of Trickster Arkati, I cannot say I am neutral observer for this matter.
Everything has Good and Bad Aspect. (Orlanthi proverb?) Gregging also has Good and Bad Aspect.
From POV of "civilized" Asian, "good" side of concept of four societies is inducing necessity of Scholarship and Education for understanding Glorantha, inducing actual consideration for Godlearnism and Illumination (though I suppose some might say that is the "bad" side of it.) Bad Side of this idea is IMO Civilsation = evolution of magic, so Sorcerers cannot live with Hunter/ Gatherers while Animists cannot live in Cities....it might be over simplification but it is from my short of knowledge for RQ 1st and 2nd.
Good aspect of inducing Mysticism in Glorantha is destroying this concept. Animist cannot make Centralized Civilization. (Though I admit Culture and Civilzation is not same and you can call it prejudice.) Bad Aspect of Mysticism is it makes vague and obscure everything, because itself in a sense denies Rule and Definition and Categorization.
Sincerely:
TI
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