language, Italian-she and sex

From: Gianfranco Geroldi <giangero_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 05:46:54 -0700 (PDT)


> Anthropowanking follows
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> One other potential attribute to consider for
> Pelorian
> langauges. Post-structualists call languages
> phallogocentric, because the are based on difference
> (phallus = sexual difference, the first recognized,
> logos = the word). Feminist theorists have suggested
> that 'female language' is an untterable expression
> of
> that state before the realisation of identity and
> difference when our experience is of oneness with
> the
> world.

Interesting, (but if it is what the title say, you shouldn't ask for our appreciation, Ian ;-)). Seriously (?) I think that you confound between cultural language (which can be sexist, according to dominant culture) and individual proto language (which is always feminine in the first baby-mom relationship and then masculine, even for lassies, when they grow a little bit and learn that the world doesn't end past their mothers: the awareness of being "other" which predates sexual difference awareness). Not that I have the slightest idea of how this presumed mistake by you can help or hinder the comprehension and/or confutation of your theory :-)

Then let me add that, FWIW, in Italy we use TU and INDICATIVE tense in parithetical and usually familiar or older to younger realtionship. We use the SHE (LEI in italian, third singular feminine person; becomes THEY, i.e. LORO, when one need to address a plural number of people formally) and CONJUNCTIVE tense for formal, younger to older, minor to major ones. There is the older, slightly mafioso, undoubtedly fascist use of YOU, VOI (2nd plural person) and there is also the slangish, vernacular and incorrect use of HE, LUI (3rd singular masculine person). The grammatically correct form is the first (SHE), but southern Italy's YOU is also correct even if not on TV.
Our language is in this way more prone to servilism and to bezantinism and to indirect polite conversation and discussion forms than the average anglo-saxon tongue (mirroring the tortuosity of our culture and society).

Third and last: moths ago I had with John Hughes a short but stimulating "conversation" about the nature of perception of Cosmic Sexism in Glorantha. The final question was: are Gods, like Orlanth and Ernalda, really male and female or is their worshippers' vision and society that which needs to attribute a sex even to gods and so has (artificially) called them male and female?

Ciao,
Gian



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