Japanese Version:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ty2m-iwsk/rq/script/history/gloranthan/misc/the_
history_of_the_shipbuildings_in_glorantha.html
My friend Efendi seems to have not assent with some of Joerg's opinion about
Shipbuilding History of Glorantha.
(It seems that he has studied it in his university....)
He wrote some about it in Japanese and have a plan to translate it into English ....
Ship Building of Glorantha
In spite of the lack of my knowledge for the purpose of Efendi's Note,
I can find the great inquiry of Joerg's work about Square Sails, Lateen
Reggings and Paddling.
(I'm sorry, Efendi, if you think I contradicts to my former opinion about
Joerg's Sketch, but I reread the Missing Land and Tales #17, etc....) And
Joerg's opinion about Lateen Reggings to Sendereven and Square Sails to
Artmal are suited to Missing Land. (Though I think tallships of East Isles
is not explained by his opinion, and Sendereven's Trianglar Sail is mainly
inherited by the people of Thinobutu rather than that of East Isles. See
Missing Land p.93, the typical East Isles merchant ship is *type. (maybe
Greg didn't know about its origin...) I think it is derived from Jesolo or
some of unique eastern Ship Mystery without other cultures.)
Below are questions from Effendi to Joerg: Efendi asked: what is the system difference of dhow of Arabia, nao of Portugal and caravel of Spaniard? (He think all of them are same labelled with different names.)
He don't know well about Artmali and Sendereven. (He doesn't have RM and / or ML.)
Efendi thinks Joerg didn't investigate east and south navigation history
enough aside from the detailed specification of Western Culture. He wrote
some about perfectly different approach of shipbuilding of RW China
(consequently Kralorela?) Partitions and the lack of Keel. And he thinks
Joerg satisfied with the setting of some of the mere strange and rare style
of Ships linked to "these outside frontiers". (The difference of their
interest....)
Efendi greatly expanded the description about the ship type of carracks in his report (some of Efendi's approach to Glorantha isn't totally acceptable for me (TERRA)....the difference of opinion about magic and technology.) He thinks that most of Western People, Loskalm and Quinpolic League, refound the shipbuilding method of carracks of Godlearners.
He inserted some of interesting idea about the War between Mokato and Waertagi (Tamanjary) just before Tanian's Battle, he wrote it from the POV of economic and trade.
I and Efendi reached the concensus against the theory that Waertagi brought the Umathelan Orlanthi to the southern continent. (I think it is derived from mythical subjectivism of Glorantha subdivision by Greg as Elmal. Needless Change. But...see below.)
Efendi thinks that the invention of Square Sails or Paddings are too limited if Joerg's opinion about the original of Artmali (though it is not official...), he thinks that mythological explanation about technology doesn't need mythology (I and Efendi have long debated about the concept of magic and mythology...both in RW and Glorantha, and Joerg's approach to shipbuilding with Unified World Mythology from southern continent god made another headache to me and Efendi, as I mentioned in the topic of waertagi above, I don't know how to explain about it....) I think Joerg or other gloranthaphiles might know better answer for Efendi, (he thinks my idea is contaminated by too mystic-POV, I call him godlearner...(of course, it is joke, but his glorantha is unique. (In Japanese, "Unique" doesn't mean originality.....)))
Efendi's Simple Chart (Translated by TI) Countries Warship Tradeship
Yggs Isles Longship -
Vadeli Isles Longship Carrack
Loskalm Longship Cogs
Lunar Empire Longship Pontoon (Ark?)
Seshnela Galley Punt
Safelster Galley Punt
Quinpolic Galley Carrack
Esrolia Galley Cogs
Teshnos Junk Junk
Kralorela Junk Junk
Vormain Dhow Troopship-with-Oar-Tier
East Isles Dhow Dhow
Pamaltela Dhow Dhow
Valind Glacier - Hidebag-Boat
Sozganzio - Reedboat
Is it right?
Some New Informations from TI to Efendi: (From Missing Land)
Sendereven
http://www.egroups.co.jp/message/herowars-jp/238
Blue Moon People and Thinobutu
http://www.egroups.co.jp/message/herowars-jp/242
(Sorry, Japanese)
As I said, Sendereven is demigods rather than mortals (though Peter denied it, they can sail to outside Hurricane of Orlanth Storm, Sky World and Hell by their ships, see RM p.34), and use catamarans made from stone (it was mimicked by people of Thinobutu), their number counts only around 200, their homeland was once Old Dendulag of outside East Isles but they were cursed and their homeland was now lost.
Wolf Pirates allied with Vadeli until the Battle of Oenriko Rocks, still
Vadeli's Orange Guild still held a great power in Western Sea and Jrustela.
(I don't know about thier ship building technic.) Maybe Wolf Pirates was
also influenced by them. (Efendi thinks that Vadeli or WP have galleons, but
I cannot agree with him, (enough for long ships and knarrs. Glorantha is
Ancient World!) Recently, their homelands locates in Three Step, Jrustela
and Seshnela after they exiled from Loskalmi.
Mokatan Magical Tallships might not have RW parallel, your idea is interesting as I said, see ML p. 90. I think Nils can tell you some interesting story about Tamanjary.
Dwarves of Slon also hold some fleets of their own style.
Waertagi lives in Edrenlin Isles of Pamaltela (North of Elamle) and Sog
City, some other places unaffected by Closing. (Some of Black Rumor of their
return from Underworld, though I know you don't like such kind of too
magical-mythological event.) At Dawn, there were 50 fortress-city dragon
ships existed, scattered around the all of Glorantha Oceans and ruled,
except east sea, and Jrusteli didn't close to their art and technology,
(though you might not like their Fantasy Dragonships.)
Hurrah for Harald Hardrada and Argrath!
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