Great discussion, various comments to points raised.
From: "simon_hibbs2 <simon.hibbs_at_marconi.com>"
>
>rather than focusing just on Heroquesting in the classic sense,
>I think it's more usefull to think of a continuum with primitive
>ritual behaviour at one end of the spectrum and the lightbringer's
>quest at the other. Inbetween we have everything from the
>Orlanthis greeting ritual, to mariage ceremonies, up to annual
>high holy day festivals. Ultimately though, they're all the same
>kind of activity.
The common factor being that all those acts are learnt, I accept that we've moved away from a Heroquest being something done only by Heros to something which everyone does on a limited scale. It's the next stage of moving to instinctive heroquests which people are born knowing how to perform that bothers me.
>Why not? Are you suggesting that accidental conception does not
>occur in Glorantha?
No, merely that the causes of accidental conception in the real world (ignorance, failure of contraception etc.) may not be the causes in Glorantha. An alternative is that it is the result of disorderly or mischevious gods and spirits.
>Except that we know the gods already reproduced sexualy, and even
>that our ancestor grandfather mortal (substitute various cultural
>First Ancestors here) was born in this way, so this seems
>unnecessery.
Do we? The implication is there but the actual mechanism is undefined in everything I've read. KoS actually says that Grandfather and Grandmother Mortal were created by *all* the gods which is nothing like sexual reproduction, not even an enormous orgy. Then the Red Godess was created (or reborn) by seven heros and Gbaji was created by committee. So at the very least we know that there are alternatives to sex in Glorantha.
>Firstly, the methods for controlling personal fertility in
>glorantha have already been described. If heroquests were
>necessery to cause conception, surely these methods wouldn't be
>required at all - you'd just not do the heroquest. In which case,
>what are they for?
Barriers to being pulled into someone else's conception heroquest.
>Secondly, if accidental pregnancy is so incredibly rare in
>Glorantha, surely this will have enormous demographic
>consequences?
Not necessarily, accidental pregnancy is generally a far more risky thing that one occuring within the rules of the society. That's true both for the baby and the mother. Furthermore Gloranthan societies tend to encourage large families, just as was true throughout the RW up to 50 years ago.
>Thirdly, most broo (the vast majority) are feral, and are not
>educated in any religious practices at all. Where do they learn
>these potent broo heroquests?
Firstly broo are chaotic creatures (so normal rules don't always apply) and secondly they don't care what sort of creature their rapes produce so a lot of the detail of the heroquest is unimportant.
From: Chris Lemens <chrislemens_at_yahoo.com>
>Yeah, but you may have surrounded that with the
>trappings of Theism -- sacrifies, ceremonies, and
>such. Think about Animism for a moment, typified by
>ecstatic worship -- dancing, drumming, intoxication,
>exhaustion, dehydration, etc. That sounds a lot
>closer to conception or childbirth to me. An eight or
>twenty hour labor surely puts a woman into a different
>plane of existence.
Simply not to complicate the issue, there is the same intent to enter the spirit world. It becomes more difficult with the Monotheism of the west where communal prayer is the main contact ordinary people have with the other worlds. I would guess at some sort of blessing would serve the Malkoni purpose. As for Mysticism, I don't know because logically a mystic would just refute the existence of a baby.
From: Andrew Barton <AndrewBarton_at_compuserve.com>
>But you can be drawn into someone else's quest without any intent, possibly
>without knowing it.
>
>Maybe sometimes a spirit is questing to be reborn?
True, but unless the spirit has a special requirement for particular parents there will be plenty of choice. The few cases where this applies may well cause an "accidental" pregnancy.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/ --__--__--
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