Below is recent my conversation with Kevn McDonald:
Kevin:
<< In fact I think the arrival of the Ten Thousand was confusing
to the Pelandans. The Ten Thousand had connections to the Sweet Sea
League (they had hired themselves out as mercenaries to the SSL, I
think) and were monotheist sorcerers, so they appeared to be another
Blue Invasion. Syranthir's quest to Castle Blue and the return of
Carmanos would have re-inforced this view. On the other hand, they were
friendly with the Tawari bull folk and Carmanos used the rite of Bisos
to unseat the unjust emperor, who was the Blue King in Pelandan myth.
Again, I think the Jernotian Way (All is Change, All is Balance) is at
work there.>>
Me:
<<I think one of Provarian Age myth that three goddesses met Ursturburn
means
not only the fusion of humanity and a sexual desire (draconic impulse?) but
the crash of Spirit World and Theistic World....though maybe it is not
orthodox idea.
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/DragonListsofGlorantha.htm
What makes the matter confused is that Daxdarius of highland certainly
fought against Gartemius in Entekosiad.
Gartemirus is very complicated character for Greg applied the image of
Gilgamesh to him (and to his Wild Friend.....) And certainly in the point of
his attempt to stop human sacrifice is similar to Zoroaster (or
Quezalcoatl?) a cultural hero.
And Lendarsh is another hero whose ancestor came from East, as Greg's
Website mythology (it was not in Entekosiad) suggests, Lenshi and Lendarshi
came from around Elf Sea and / or Pent through Esvuthil.... Martin Laurie
pointed out the usefulness of trade for nomad and pastoralist lifeline....
>>
http://www.gloranthadigest.com/cgi-bin/message_list.py?search=Gartemirus&wha t=body&criteria=keywords
Below are Peter and Joerg about Pelandan myth figure Gartemirus
Gartemirus and Ekus Wild Main Legend
http://www.gloranthadigest.com/cgi-bin/message.py?ref=24889
<<Peter Metcalph:
My evidence for the migration of the Hyalorings into Saird stems
from the Entekosiad. There Gartemirus leads a host to help Emperor
Eskarlavus to defeat the Rikestings (ie Bird People probably related
to Emperor Kestinoros). Eskarlavus has apparently performed the
"Muster of Murharzarm". From the other three quarters, Gartemirus
sees a naked man bearing only sticks and stones (Zarkos), a man with
a javelin and frog protection (Suvaria) and a man upon a horse.
Gartemirus is surprised at the Man with a Horse. We know that a Man
on a Bird would be expected, but since the foe is the Rikestings,
Erskanlavus has changed the rites. It can be inferred that the
Hyalorings are not in Saird at this time or else Gartemirus would
have heard about it - he is not suprised by the appearance of the
Zarkosite for instance.
http://www.gloranthadigest.com/cgi-bin/message.py?ref=18307 Joerg Baumgartner:
Prehistoric Waddling alert!
Checking the source material I have on pre-historic Western Peloria (i.e. Entekosiad, with small bits from Broken Council, TFS, GRoY and Genertela Box) I came to wonder which culture Daxdarius belonged to. The story of his fight against the Andam Horde calls his homeland Oroninian. Was he an Oroninelan? Did he and his warriors wear blue paint, or even have blue skin?
I still have difficulties getting Daxdarius, Idomon and his grandson Gartemirus, and Bisos into a sequence.
The Tawari seem to have been one of the many barbarian belt "cattle and cart" groups, like the Andams, the Ram People of Plentonic fame, or the tribes of Erlandus and Ovadorudum (like the Ram People, mentioned in the Yolp Mountains myth in GRoY). The Brass Mountains Story in Entekosiad tells yet another version of how the "cattle and cart" people with their swords were destroyed by volcanoes. The only variant of this story where the volcano loses is the invasion of Oronin to Mt. Turos.
The Bisosae invasion encounters cities, but claims that the Pelandan agriculture still was primitive. The Brass Mountains story tells that Digging Stick knew the secret of Pela - i.e. horticulture with grain, like the Amerinds of the Great Plains practised near the great rivers. The Bisosae bring the plow from their homeland in Charg, later Vanstal, where their ancestor received it from the metal people - Third Eye Blue, or the Nidan Mostali.
The dating problem comes with the fact that the Bisosae seem to defeat the Oroninelans effortlessly, while the Daxdarian hoplites defeat the Andams effortlessly. Entekosiad mentions a "Bull Stops Here" battle which seems to have been fought somewhere between the Oronin region and Karantes.
Worse, the Bisosae have stories from Bisos' victory over King Blue to the Bleak Period, and through the kazkurtum. None of these mention Gartemirus or Daxdarius. The Gartemirus cycle ("High Pelanda") mentions Jernotia/us and King Blue, but this could be related to Bisos' victory over him.
One easy solution to the problem would be to say that the Andam Horde stopped by Daxdarius was identical to Herantho's bull army stopped by ArLenish (although that battle might have come from era of the return of the Bisosae to Pelanda). We know from Plentonius and the Yolp Mountain story that the "total destruction" of enemy armies never was that complete...
Still, this seems too easy.
Another subject of indecision is whether Daxdarius or Idomon the Prophet and his grandson Gartemirus came first. In this case a later Gartemirus act (Gartemirus and Eskarlarvus) seems to be connected with Manarlarvus building of the dome, and possibly the original "I Hate Darjiin Usurpers" event. Daxdarius' fight against the Andams seems to predate this, paralleling the advance of the Ram people (under Urvairinus). However, the first war of Urvairinus (against the King of Naveria, the Lord of Seven (i.e. the Pelandan High Gods on Mt. Jernotius?) might relate to this event, too. Worse, Valare Addi mentions that Daxdarius and Gartemirus were contemporaries...
Frankly, I think that Valare's bullshitting of the Carmanian historians at the beginning of the Daxdarian epic is as historically uncorrect as she accuses the Carmanians to be. This doesn't make the Carmanians right, but at least less wrong.
I am left with three post-flood (i.e. post blue invasion), pre-Greater Darkness civilisations for roughly the same period and area - Bisos to the southwest, around Lake Oronin, Daxdarius in the lower Oronin valley, and Gartemirus for the same cities.
http://www.gloranthadigest.com/cgi-bin/message.py?ref=3765
>>
Perhaps someone can collect and order all of these analysis about Ent....... If you can collect them.....
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End of Glorantha Digest
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