Issaries Site "What my father Told Me" in Seshnela http://www.glorantha.com/library/dad/western.html
I don't know well about RW european legend and idealized chivalry so much as
you.
But I think in RW, both in the world of reality and tales like Arthurian
Legend, or Amadis de Gaula, knighthood was from necessity in the downfall of
West Roman Empire the mixture of customs of Rome, Celt and Germans that
Feudalism and armed independent landowners began their life, and was later
idealized by poetry and stories.
But such circumstance wasn't in IDEALLY URBANIZED Danmalastan, and prophet Hrestol was the apparent founder of Chivalry and it straightly attached to his spiritual / mystical / religious / anti-zzaburismic concept "Joy of the Heart".
IMHO, Arkat proved "Hrestol's achievement to Knighthood" is mystical and he justified his frequent usage of Crusade Ritual. (Mass Combat Enhancement Blessing? : Tales #13) But Godlearners disproved Arkat's understanding as Error.
I think from the point of view of Brithini, knightship is inevitably
paganistic and false as seshnelan kingship. (See the tale of King Saval and
Guardian of Serpent Dynasty.)
http://www.glorantha.com/greg/seshnelanKings1.html
<<and Earl Faraalz, the second person who had become a Knight. (They were
appointed for their wisdom in religion, government, and morality).>>
See also Peter Metcalph's writing about Malkioni Knight http://www.btinternet.com/%7ENick_Brooke/malkioni/knights.htm
Nick:
<<Generally excellent, though I'd always prefer to read an article rather
than
a table. Maybe add linked URLs to your sources, where available? That said,
on a quick read-through:>>
OK, I will add the links as soon as possible.
<<VADELI
Blue Vadeli are sorcerers ("wizards"), not lords.>>
I am not sure why I wrote Blues "Lord" in my old handscript long ago (I
copied it to the
http table) I cannot find the reference what I used (ML p.51-52 didn't tell
me much)....There is not enough information about them. And true Zzaburism
(atheism) is from Zzabur, not Vadel. As far as I read about Vadel's act in
RM, I think he was a character of diplomat, not sorcerer. IMHO.
<<WAERTAGI
What makes you assume they aren't immortal?>>
Hmmm....I'm not sure, either. But I suppose ML last pages Greg's tale: Aftal a captain of waertagi expressed "generations" not and Anaxial Roster, Tales #13 didn't mention they are immortal. Elder Secret: Elder Races Book doesn't mention their aging and senility. And their cousin, merfolks aren't immortals except deeper kinfolks like demigod tritons and gnydron....? (old Mythology of Aerlit and Warela Triolina was revised in Anaxial Roster (IIRC), immortals of Danmalastan and triolini).
<<OLD HRESTOLI
If this is meant to be related to my "Old Seshnelan Chivalry" sect (Castle
Coast), then caste mobility is somewhat more open than your write-up makes
it
sound.>>
No, I wrote it as vague concept like Silver Empire and Akem kingdom, before Godlearners and Athiestic Sorcerers changed Seshnela and western countries. Certainly, I should take apart them from modern Castle Coastans. See below.
<<NEW HRESTOLI
"Soldier" is *almost* in the Farmer rather than the Knight class. Not sure I
agree that Knights are the social elite, when there are two classes above
them.>>
Originally, "Horal" is not knight, but Soldier. And I don't know Jamie will agree with you or not. About the concept of Chivalry and the necessity of distinction between soldier and knight, see below.
<<SYANORANS
More info. on the Arrolians (hybrid Lunar Malkioni) in Tales #20: they have
seven classes (of course), no problem with sexual equality or "caste"
mobility, and no idea what "Knighthood" is all about. But then, they're a
bunch of pacifist lefties...>>
It is certainly a new information, thanks.
<<VALKARISTS
I seem to recall there is only ever one member of the Valkarist "Lord"
caste. This may be a snippet from Sandy which we left out of the game and
sect writeup as irrelevant to HtWwO: the *impression* outsiders get is that
the sect is ruled by wizards, even though they know this isn't the case.>>
<<CARMANIANS
"Knighthood" got kinda lost along the way -- the Carmanian Dualist Heresy
knocks Chivalry for six, while the Hazar caste is in effect "knightly" (as
they have Pelandan, Brolian, etc. levies to do the grunt-work). But they are
familiar with the concept, although they'd interpret legends of Hrestol as
stories about a Hazar rather than a "Western Knight" per se.
Carmanian "caste mobility" is based on the roles Lords assign their kinsmen to, and not personal choice. There is a limited hereditary element -- the Magi -- but best ignore that for now.>>
<<SAFELSTRAN
I run these with no "Lord" caste per se: exemplars from each class could
become "Merchant Princes" (peasant), "Princes of the Church" (wizard), and
"Princes" (knight). Fits the Renaissance/Machiavellian idiom I'm after,
anyway. Caste structures are looser because this is a more advanced society
than retro-feudal Seshnela.>>
Well, I should confess that I feel some difficulty to write about the Peter's concept of secret society Arkati and open-minded church of Safelstans. And Peter doesn't want to talk about the system of Stygian Empire. Maybe I put on make two tables and take apart both of them before you or Peter make compromise and / or resolution of two folded society.
<<ROKARI table: wot no Bishops? Should be
Baron <=> Abbot (etc.)
Count <=> Bishop
Duke <=> Archbishop (if any)
King <=> Pope>>
I don't know well about the connection between "Pope or Pappas, or more romanly, Pontifex Maximus" and rather sounding greekish "Ecclesiarch" even after I stopped calling you by that title : ).
<<ecclesia noun
plural ecclesiae
1. The political assembly of citizens of an ancient Greek state.
2. A church or congregation.>>
<<NEW HRESTOLI table: minor landholder could be "Squire", cf. Tales #13 (or
my
site (or Sandy's past posts)). Also, in the RMM account there'd be no such
thing as a "New Hrestoli Bishop" -- these were all "Cardinals" in HtWwO.>>
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