Kitori History is only available for GTA heroes.....it might help my imagination (and delusion)....
> Jamie
> > > I don't think that the West, by and large, tends to have much in
> > > the way of standing armies. Loskalm is an exception, of course
> > > (although not the only one, IMO).
>
> Peter
> > The only idea for the west not generally having standing armies
> > comes from the received medieval parallel. And even that is
> > largely inaccurate being formed from medieval literature which
> > was written by hacks that lavished attention on the knights and
> > ignored the poor bloody infantry.
>
But the delusion is also the one of the very sources of tabletop RPG like
Pendragon.
And fantasy makes possibility.
Martin Laurie:
> I think Peter is spot on the nose here. The concept of medieval armies
being
> feudal and unprofessional has come under increasing attack since the war
> years. Oman and others of his era who applauded the art of war during the
> days of the ancients, tended to denegrate the medieval period as being
> lacking in military skill. Part of this was the belief that their armies
> were not standing and therefore not professional.
Excuse me.....Oman, who?
>
> While it is true that standing _state_ armies (as in those armies
recruited
> and maintained constantly all year round - various military orders and
> special organisations did exist as standing forces) in Western Europe were
> not truly systemic till the late Hundred Years war, the definition of
> 'professional' needs some examining. Many knights and commoners lived in
a
> constant state of campaigning, some even through the winter or in garrison
> duty. So frequent was this duty that they often had far _more_ time in
> training, actual combat and in a military environment than many soldiers
in
> professional armies today. Rather than being paid regularly by the state
many
> of these soldiers and warriors reached a state that we would call sub
> contracting in our employment market. So while they had no regular pay,
they
> were nevertheless 'professionals' in terms of skill and capability.
>
But how about centralized structure for requirement of organized warfare? I
think that makes the circumstance of heortling "constantly" loses against
lunars.....even if heortling ordinary fyrdmen are more trained than ordinary
stock of Empire.
see "Report to Dagius Furius" in King of Sartar, I think you might want to
more speculate about the drills for professional warriors in glorantha and
organized war machine.....
And strategy, logistics and tactics cannot work without it I think.
Peter:
> > I find it more interesting to give strong Malkioni states standing
> > armies and/or professional infantry, considering that other great
> > civilizations (Lunar, Kralori, Fonritan and Holy Country) have them.
>
See below, I am not sure about the difference of "Great Civilization" and barbarism....
Martin:
> Yes and Loskalm has a standing army larger that pre-Italian wars France
> managed to field in 1495 in the Fornovo campaign, yet France then had 4
times
> the population of Loskalm.
>
> The Lunar Imperial Army can field around 120,000 troops, twice as many if
it
> raised its garrison and house forces. Kralorela could likely raise even
more
> forces.
>
How about the relationship of so-called "decadence" of civilization and sparsely populated but fierce nomads in Pent and Prax? Sandy Petersen: The Art of War in Glorantha http://www.poppyware.com/dunham/glorantha/gaow.html
> Seshnelan and Safelestran armies are recruited from a professional class
of
> knights, who are feudally raised yet spend most of their time preparing
and
> training for war. Many have extensive combat experience. There is also a
> significant body of mercenaries, esp in Safelester that are professional
> fighters. Many commoners can fight too, communes or city militias provide
a
> strong infantry force.
>
> So while a standing army in the sense we know it may not be feasible on a
> large scale, all of those states will have access to forces that can fight
> quickly and are professional in character. This is not really very
different
> from a modern state army which has cadre standing forces, designed to be
> expanded in times of total mobilisation. Consider the growth in the
American
> army from pre world wars levels to the end of those wars. The same
> principles apply.
>
> Martin Laurie
>
Umm, your opinion about this topic is closed to that of the relationship
between rapists and broos...IMHO..
This debate might fall to similar result as Efendi and I talked about the
history.
For Example:
TI : "There is no large scale warfare as in ancient days of Roman Republic and early Empire crushing Parthia...."
Efendi: "But there is no such necessity in that age, and your european centralized POV to history and "Dark Age" was largely ignored and / or changed by modern historians, your education is limited for the narrow-mindedness of Japanese Ministry of Education."
TI: "But if requirement of large scaled warfare and tactics was banished for tendency, isn't it equal to its state in decline?"
Efendi: "You exaggerate that such tendency was constant in Medieval Age but Roman Age hadn't been as if you have the proof for it. Such one sided point of view derived from philology of Marxists should be more speculated from the historical fact and sourrces that prove the flow of economy and population movement on the remnants, relics and official papers. Read the large volume of contemporary historian book like Fernand Braudel's "lLA MEDITERRANEE ET LE MONDE MEDITERRANEEN A L'EPOQUE DE PHILIPPE II and be brainwashed."
TI: "Ok, I will try, but this volume is too large.....for amateur. Is there any short guidance?"
TI: "But we are talking about Fantasy World, and you cannot ignore the fantasy and its worth as the aim of entertainment, even if you doubt the worthiness of religion and psychology to the aestheticism from the point of view of utilitarianism, and you might think Glorantha should be something for your historical study and your brainstorming. Majority of gamers doesn't want such thing..... godlearner."
Efendi: "And you should not abuse Glorantha for your occultistic purpose.....but at least I understand the necessity of our more constructive talk, okay, stop our criticism to personalities each other, vithelan mystic..."
Sorry for my delusion.
--__--__--
Powered by hypermail