Vision of Carmanos

Peter Metcalph:
> >While his people subjugated the Pelandan Cities and had a vested interest
> >in keeping distance between themselves and their conquered subjects.
> >

Kevin McDonald:
> Agreed - although IMHO this applies more to the cities of the middle and
> lower Oronin valley than the cities around Lake Oronin. YGMV.
>
> >Just because he made friends and mythic connections with the Bisosae
> >does not mean that he converted them to his religion. The two could
> >have merely had a profitable relationship in much the same way as the
> >Sikhs did with their British overlords after the Indian Mutiny.
> >
> It certainly *could* have worked that way. Much depends on what Carmanos
> was like, who his early supporters were, and why they supported him.

I heard that only 100 members of Magi can be in Brinnus at a same time at least in modern day West Reach.
If one dies, another was replaced from stock of chosen ones from their birth, (before that, they belongs to Vizier caste?) IIRC. I don't know well about the death of "Carmanos" cult in the Battle of Four Arrows of Light, although.

>
> Carmanos was raised in an isolated magical castle surrounded by Pelandan
> (Blue) immortals and his dad.

YGMV, My Syranthir died when he took baby Carmanos back from the clutch of Demon Lord YarGan and left him to his father-in-law, King Oronin....I think there is a rivalry between Blue People of Lake Oronin and Demonic Sorcerers of YarGan....Yargan killed King Oronin and robbed his adamant crown and sovereignty....in Ent, p. 53. And his blood poisoned and fishs vanished from the lake, until Carmanos recovered it. [IIRC, Tales #16] http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/syranthirdeath-e.htm I wrote it long ago...

<<Time
(Dawn) IMHO, after Degeneria relit the Flame in the ruin of Hagu, the part of the Life of King Oronin also revived as under the Cosmic Compromise in Orlanthi
Myth, but that is imperfect and not Fertile as his reign. YarGan still lived in Depth of Pelanda and demanded Blue People. Struggle between Spolite and Dara Happa worsened this situation. I think Castle Blue (see Redline History 0th Wane, Appendix) was a consequence of Compromise, King Oronin and YarGan, God Age and Time. (There is no refering about Fishes about this period...)

(Carmanian Empire) Next Great Change, was of course that of Syranthir and Carmanos.
Sironder married with a Mysterious Goddess of Castle Blue and helped the Fertility of the Lake, the Power of Brinnus finally defeated or absorbed the Power of Enthyr, and Carmanos started Worship of his mother.

(Bull Dynasty) As they also stood for Carmanian Dualism, they remained the superficial Worship though they hunted down the Bloodline of Carmanos.

(Lunar Empire) Apotheosis of Teela Estara was a consequence of Battle of Castle Blue. Lunars destroyed the Cult of Carmanos in the Battle of Four Arrows of Light, and the supernatural War of Lake Oronin caused Fishes: see Rune Quest Genertela Book about Lake Oronin, Five Fishes again disappeared.

Maybe in Hero Wars, the returning of Coloured Fishes indicates some Great Change....>>

> So what were those
> Lake Oronin Blues like? Were they South Oredanarans - former Wendarians
> who married with the Blues of the Sweet Sea?

See Entekosiad, p.50. IMHO you struck a good point when you distinguished blue people of Oronin from those of Sweet Sea. I think YarGan sorcerers oppressed original blue people into slavery, as they did in Lesser Darkness, as Spolite did to people of Pelanda....

> Are they Waertagi that came
> west to destroy Ladral?

I don't think so.

> In his searching,
> the answer he found was the Pelandan god Idovanus, one of the High Gods.
> He completed hideously dangerous quests involving both the Sorcerery and
> God planes, and reached the ultimate Truth behind each faith - the
> Carmanian Religion was born. At last he had found a way to bring East
> and West together in one faith, just has his mother and father brought
> East and West together by conceiving Carmanos. This might have taken
> quite some time, BTW. Although around 20 years had passed in the mundane
> world, who knows how much time passed in Castle Blue or in the Planes of
> myth and magic where Carmanos quested to find the Truth?

Maybe.

Please see Enclosure fanzine last page, Iresaval Heresy appeared from the antagonism against Godlearners Makan (IMHO, it is similar to greco-romanish Gnosticism rather than Zoroaster's creed), and Carmanos shifted the rather doctrinal dualistic theology into Zoroastanish practical doctrine for fighting against Spolite Empire, chose Light for fighting against the Gloom.

I agree with the theistic level that Carmanos defeated the Bull, Ent p. 89

> Whatever the reason
> for the rebellion, Bisos was defeated, brought into the fold as a Good
> God, and Vanstal (a neighboring Tawari/Bisosae land) established as a
> Carmanain protectorate. Then the liberation of Southern Pelanda began.

Or they were exploited by Spolites. But Greg seems not to talk much about the Empire of Gloom.

>
> So... I could see a case being made for the Bisosae not being early or
> enthusiastic converts. On the other hand, I think once Bisos was
> established as a Good God in the Carmanian Religion they would have good
> reason to get on board - not just as allies but as converts.

As Nick, I have a doubt about your opinion that Carmanos began to preach converts, I think it didn't begin at least in the earliest time of Carmamos Dynasty if such movement occured among conservative magus. Maybe around by Lion Shahs and / or Bull Shahs....?

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