Defiance

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:19:09 +1200


At 11:10 PM 4/14/03 +0000, you wrote:
Julian Lord

>To begin with, the Pelandan High Gods are Defiant entities,
>existing in a sub-transcendental plane where those divisions
>simply do not exist.

A nitpick - defiant entities refers to entities with the disorder rune, such as Storm Bull or Eurmal. Most Pelandan High Gods are not disorderly and thus not defiant.

--Peter Metcalfe

> This plane (1) is coeval but not identical to
>"the" Green Age. A major difference is that the Pelandan
>High Gods can be worshipped, although in most cases
>the magical methods of that worship will be fragmented
>between sorcery, animism, and theism.
>
>It is also possible, indeed likely, that, **historically**,
>Pelandan cults could have crystallised into schemes where
>each individual High God is **perceived** by Pelandans
>as either an essence, a god, or a spirit. Not to mention
>any mysticism possibilities. Nevertheless, their Defiant nature
>was not destroyed by the Gods War.
>
>If so, and as I believe, there are lower entities having the same
>name and the same cults as the High Gods, except that
>these are Forms (not Aspects) of those Gods. Similar
>to the fact that there is a High "Natha" and a Natha
>Aspect in Sedenyic philosophy. The Pelandan High Gods
>transcend the divisions between the otherworlds in exactly
>the same way as Sedenya does.
>
>A quibble : they are not "mixed", although I suppose that
>mixed magical entities can generally exist. Demons, mostly.
>
>Mixed entities do not have the same degree of connection
>to the transcendental that defiant ones have, because they
>were created *after* the cosmic destruction of God Time.
>
>I think the Pelandans see the Inner World, Hero Plane(s) and
>Underworlds as mixed, but definitely not the Spirit World
>(which is pure).
>
>It is because the High Gods are sub-transcendental that
>their cosmogony differs from religions that were
>born in the conflagrations of the Gods War. The division
>into a Male Space and a Female one existed prior to
>that War, but did not constitute any form of universal
>destruction because the two Spaces were One inside
>the Ulerian Veil (later torn into shreds, and becoming
>her Net). The other High Gods had/have their own
>specific powers to provide cosmic unity.
>
> > p.19-37?
> > I can't suppose the profound meaning of the mythology of ArroTurru
> > except as a history of native of Wendaria (as Old Testament...) before
> > How the Men Got Useful (Green Age) ....(See Gloranthan Vision) and
> > three errors (p.31-37), it indicates that Sorcery, trickster, Storm
> > and Sun as villains as a representative of vileness of men....(TI) Any
> > ideas?
>
>These are Gods War period tales, anyway.
>
> > Good of Feminism (Life, Innocense, Family) to Evil of Masclinism
> > (Death, War, Ego)
>
>Yes, but Valare Addi was a woman exploring women's myths ... ;-)
>
> > <<Greg Stafford: So many people has different perspective and opinion
> > about mysticism.....>>
>
>And they are all on the right track ... :-)
>
>(Except for the Shengs of the world ... )
>
> > Later Jernotian Creed was connected and developed as Lunar Creed....
>
>It's the same thing.
>
>Julian Lord
>
>(1) It is very similar to the later Gloranthan Court period,
>but not identical.
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 2
>From: "Julian Lord" <jlord_at_free.fr>
> pavisawakes_at_yahoogroups.com
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:54:14 +0200
>Subject: Call for translators !!
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>Hi guys !
>
>Les Erudits de l'Ambigu would like to translate
>some of our award-winning material into English,
>for possible publication in one of the HQ media.
>
>We are looking for volunteers to do this work with us.
>
>We would prefer a native english-speaker, of course,
>but an alternative solution may be acceptable.
>
>It should be noted that the needs of the english-language
>market being so different from the french-language one,
>some adaptation of the material would be desirable.
>
>We are therefore also looking for volunteers to help
>rework that material, possibly to take it to a level
>of acceptability suitable for official publication by Issaries.
>
>First up is our Pol Joni material, which could easily
>be developed into a HQ story arc.
>
>Interested parties please e-mail me privately.
>
>cheers,
>
>Julian Lord
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:58:10 -0500
>From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1_at_airmail.net>
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Subject: Re: Ducks
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>
> >From: Chris Lemens <chrislemens_at_yahoo.com>
> >David Dunham, responding to Stewart, I think:
> >> Sadly, I'm not aware of any serious Duck player
> >> characters.
> >
> >Not sure that it helps, but one of the folks in
> >Sandy's group played Blackbeak the Duck, Scourge of
> >the Low Seas, for quite a while. Someone did a lovely
> >sketch showing why his CHA was a mighty 3. Start with
> >Daffy, take away the silly parts, and feed him nothing
> >but amphetamines for 3 years . . . that was pretty
> >much it.
>
>The sketch was actually done by the ever lovely and talented Paul Jaquays,=
> whose affinity for ducks is well known.
>
> >
>...
> >He didn't take the "orange sauce" jokes very well.
> >Before I joined the group, the group aparently killed
> >a minotaur with some sort of fire magic. Later that
> >night, Blackbeak served up orange beef.
>
>The minotaur was a player character, actually, and died in combat against a=
> fire elemental in the bowl of an active volcano, where Blackbeak's pirate=
> band had hidden some treasure several years before. Best quote of the=
> night (remember, we'd been sailing around the seas for quite awhile by=
> now): "(munch munch munch)... hey, where'd we get the beef?"
>
> >
>
>Guy Hoyle
>
>
>_____
>Always choose the option that'll most likely blow up in your own face. You=
> never know when a tribe of werebears is going to want to skin you alive,=
> for instance. Those are the Munchausenesque moments you can brag about=
> over beer for years.
>
>Of course, sometimes you get bitten by vampires infected with bubonic=
> plague, but on the whole, you have a great time.
>
>
>
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:16:46 -0500
>From: "Guy Hoyle" <ghoyle1_at_airmail.net>
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Subject: Mailing List Question
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>Does there exist a Windows-based email program that is capable of=
> un-digesting the messages into their component emails? To be honest, I=
> find the batch format to be less convenient than individual messages.
>
>Guy
>_____
>Always choose the option that'll most likely blow up in your own face. You=
> never know when a tribe of werebears is going to want to skin you alive,=
> for instance. Those are the Munchausenesque moments you can brag about=
> over beer for years.
>
>Of course, sometimes you get bitten by vampires infected with bubonic=
> plague, but on the whole, you have a great time.
>
>
>
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: Osentalka_at_aol.com
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:42:49 EDT
>Subject: Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #402 - 2 msgs
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>Hello Friends
>
> > I personally like the weirdness of the rotating Destix explanation,
> > which shouldn't come as a surprise to many ... ;-)
>
>So do I.=20
>It is far more fantasy like, than this rotating 20th entury science=20
>explanation.=20
>
>
> > Although I must admit to really disliking the idea that the Moon=20
> > doesn't rotate.
>
>Sorry, but i don=B4t agree.=20
>The Red Moon was part of Glorantha (crater).=20
>Glorantha doesn=B4t rotate, so why should the Red Moon?
>
>
> > Hmmm ... maybe, instead of staring fixedly southwards,
> > the Moon rotates anticlockwise, taking four weeks (one month !)
> > to turn 360=B0 ? IMG the weirder the Moon the better,
> > although obviously that wouldn't be everyone's cup of weirdness.
>
>Have a look at Tales # Lunar Special. The map of the red moon shows a place=20
>(doesn=B4t remember the name at the moment) where spears can be found standi=
>ng,=20
>with tips into the sky, en masse. That is because a long time ago an Orlanth=
>i=20
>hero jumped from the top of the world onto the moon.=20
>
>If the moon rotates the landing point of another person, makeing a new=20
>attempt, could be at a lot of different places. So it wouldn=B4t make any se=
>nse=20
>to place the spears exactly on THIS space.=20
>
>
> > > So. Personally I like the moon to be seen in the same phase regardless
> > > of where the observer is standing. So in my vision the moon is
> > > pulsing, not turning.
> >=20
> > I like this explanation for what is seen in the Silver Shadow.
>
>Silver Shadow has to be special place what so ever. At least there should be=
>=20
>a special explanation for Glamour, and surriunding area.=20
>IMHO Glamour (and may be Silver Shadow at all) should have ALWAYS have a ful=
>l=20
>moon.=20
>
>Another problem is the shadow of the Red Moon; the REAL one that appears on=20
>glorantha when the Red Moon is between an area of Glorantha and Yelm.=20
>Wouldn=B4t Glamour be most of the time in shadow?
>
>
>cheers
>
>Andr=E9=20
>
>
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 11:43:24 -0700
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>From: David Dunham <dunham_at_pensee.com>
>Subject: Re: Page by Page in Entekosiad (1)
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>Terra
>
> > Here I begin to collect everyone's the nightmarish enigma in Greg's
> > Entekosiad, page by page.
>
>I don't find Entekosiad a nightmarish enigma. It's got some of my
>favorite myths -- I've always liked Daxdarius, and Naveria is one of
>my favorite heroines (it's criminal how the Dara Happans have reduced
>her to a kitchen god).
>
>The book "The Time Falling Bodies Take to Light: Mythology,
>Sexuality, and the Origins of Culture" by William Irwin Thompson is
>in many ways a useful guide to the Entekosiad, since it deals with
>mythology of the Neolithic. (If I recall correctly, Greg recommended
>the book to me before he released Entekosiad, though I didn't read it
>until afterwards.)
>--
>
>David Dunham
>Glorantha/HW/RQ page: <http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html>
>Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 7
>From: "Greg Stafford" <greg_at_glorantha.com>
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Subject: Looking at the Moon
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 15:42:46 -0800
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>Friends,
>
>In my Glorantha...
>
> >From: "Julian Lord" <jlord_at_free.fr>
>and
> >S. Ben Melhuish :
> >
> >> I'm about halfway through the ILH1, and I have a
> >question regarding>> the appearance of the Red Moon, and its effects>on
> Lunar magic.
> >>
> >> ILH1, on p. 9, says "... the Moon is visible as
> >an orb whose surface>> color changes from red to black to red again in
> a>weekly cycle. ...
> >> The available power on which a worshipper can
> >draw is determined by>> the perceived phase of the Moon, which
> varies>depending on where he is
> >> in Glorantha."
> >>
> >> When I read this, I envision a Moon which is red
> >on one side and black
> >> on the other, and which rotates weekly.
>
>This what it looks like, and what most people on the Surface World believe
>to be so.
>
> >This is not the case. In fact, the Moon has a
> >satellite, called Destix, which radiates Darkness
> >on one half of the Moon and projects
> >the perceived blackness onto one half, and
> >completes
> >its orbit over the course of each seven day period
> >AKA "week" ;-).
>
>This is a belief promulgated by several Lunar religions, castes and sects.
>They will tell you it is true, and if you join their cults, then you can
>go to Destix and see/experience this.
>Other cults, including Buserian, clam that no evidence exists for such a body.
>Many other knowledgable Lunar spiritual organizations agree with Buserian,
>or with the Destixites.
>Who is right here?
>Well, the HW will give you the chance to work it out.
>
> >> Thus, when someone in the
> >> Oronin satrapy (to the northwest) sees a red
> >Moon, someone in the
> >> Kostaddi satrapy (to the southeast) would see
> >black.
>
>Yes, that's how I have seen it.
>
> >> An observer in
> >> Glamour would look up and see a moon half red and
> >half black, with the
> >> division between the halves running roughly
> >southwest-northeast.
>
>Not to me.
>In fact, most observers looking up at the moon, which is more or less
>overhead, see the face of the Goddess. Her facial features are vaguely
>visible to most cultists (much more clear than Earth's "man in the moon.")
>and are quite clear to many devotees, shamans and other such dedicate
>people. Some claim to even see when she changes her facial jewelry.
>Astonishingly, most of those who make this claim also see the same jewelry
>when it is changed!
>
> >> Similarly, a Lunar outside the Glowline to the
> >northwest would get a
> >> red Moon bonus to her magic use, while one
> >outside the Glowline to the
> >> southeast (say, in Pavis) would get a black Moon
> >penalty.
>
>Yes, that is how I do it.
>
> >> On a related note, how big does (your campaign's
> >version of) the Moon
> >> appear to be?
>
>To me, about the size of our moon when outside the Glowline.
>
> >Does it appear larger the closer one gets to it ?
>
>Yes, in general, and when directly below it, it can seem to cover a
>quarter to half of the sky overhead.
>
>
>
>-- __--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 19:12:57 GMT
>From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)
>To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>Subject: Re: Babs
>Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
>
>In message <1050226426.209768.0_at_[62.253.240.28]>
>glorantha-request_at_rpglist.org writes:
>
>From: "Jane Williams" <janewilliams20_at_yahoo.co.uk>
>
> >Oh, yes! Like it! A goddess who is not so much worshipped as blamed....
> >some sort of weird love/hate relationship. Plus a big dose of self-hatred
> >for being the sort of person who the goddess would do this to in the first
> >place. Hence all the self-mutilation...
> >
> >Writing this story without getting far too morbid is going to be quite
> tricky.
>
>I rather think of Babs as still being part of a clan with all the benefits
>and obligations that entails. Just the benefits are barely acknowledged
>while grudges are emphasised and obligations fulfilled as a duty. So there
>will be relationships with weaponthanes if only as sparring partners.
>There's also some sort of relationship with Ernalda - probably an obscure
>religious one. On a more practical level many of the clan women will
>know why the Babs worshipper took that path and some will sympathise.
>
>--
>Donald Oddy
>http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/
>
>
>-- __--__--
>

--__--__--

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