> > > Uleria has a major association with disorder (AR p244).
>
> >ALL Gloranthan Court entities are associated with Ratslaff.
>
> Read the myth before trying to suggest that all Celestial Court
> members are equally associated with disorder.
They were all of them equally affected by Disorder.
They were all of them variously affected by Disorder.
Disorder was also affected by all of them.
Uleria's association with Disorder is no more and no less important than her association with, say, Movement, or Illusion, or Earth.
Disorder's association with Uleria is no more and no less important than its association with, say, Movement, or Illusion, or Earth.
The Powers of the Gloranthan Court interpenetrated each other, and destroyed each other, and the fragments of that conflagration created Glorantha as it exists today. Without Ratslaff's Disorder this would not have happened, so yeah : I maintain that ALL Gloranthan Court entities are associated with Ratslaff.
I can see no reason at all to follow your suggestion that Uleria's original Runic Purity was any more compromised by Ratslaff than that of any other member of the Court.
> Uleria's
> association with disorder goes well beyond what the others
> (except Ratslaff) did.
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this.
Ratslaff caused a huge chunk of indestructible cosmic Law to break off the Mountain, thus ruining it forever.
Ratslaff disordered and smashed the Truth, so that it is no longer unique.
He broke Harana Ilor's Harp, so that the original cosmic Harmony is gone forever.
He disordered Kargan Tor's perfect strategies so that he could be, and would be, defeated in battle.
All of these events are influxes of Disorder into the very core natures of Ratslaff's colleagues of the Gloranthan Court, and in a very real sense this is a MAJOR reason why the Court itself fell into disarray and flew apart.
How is the breaking of Harana's Harp any less an association with Disorder than the rending of Uleria's Veil ?
Answer : it isn't.
The difference here, as far as Uleria's association with the boggles, is that she _loved_ the little critters, and also that that their desire for Uleria came from Uleria herself. By desiring her, they basically pre-defeated themselves, and so submitted to her.
And let me quote the myth you suggested I "read" : "Thus did the power of Love overcome Disorder first."
NOT "Disorder overcome Love."
> >It is IMO stretching things a little arbitrarily to go from
> >one myth involving a sexual encounter between Uleria
> >and Ratslaff's children to conclude that Uleria has any
> >major association with Disorder.
>
> It is not stretching things a little arbitrarily, it is canon.
Nope. The only Gloranthan Court member having a major association with Disorder is Ratslaff, because Gloranthan Court members were Pure Runic Entities having no major association with any other Rune apart from their shared participation in the Gloranthan Court itself.
> Uleria has a high holy day in disorder week because of it.
According to that old, sometimes erroneous, write-up :
"Uleria is worshiped every day, in some temple somewhere in the world. Her special festivals fall on the second week of each season, and last all week long."
The second week of each season is HARMONY week, Peter, NOT Disorder week.
Anyway, in a forthcoming write-up, Ian and I have moved her HHD to Sacred Time. :-P
Not official of course, so take it as you will ... ;-)
> > > I am not confusing anything. The distinction is an uncanonical
> > > one that you coined.
>
> >Actually, no, it isn't originally my idea.
>
> Yes, it is.
<sigh!>
I must have hallucinated Steve Martin suggesting it to me then ...
> I don't see anything anywhere being written about
> non-disorderly defiant entities.
Peter, the only really meaningful definition of "defiant entity" is that these are single entities providing theist, animist, and sorcerous magics, all three, to their worshippers (taken as a whole).
Sedenya provides just such a service. So, probably, does Arkat. Kyger Litor was at one point slated to do so (does she still ?).
Is Sedenya a goddess of Disorder ? Of course, she is associated with that power, as she is associated with all of the ancient Powers, but no, she is essentially a goddess of Inclusion and Submission.
Hardly concepts that spring spontaneously to mind upon hearing the word "Disorder" ...
Defiant entities are quite simply those existing outside, or as exceptions to, the strong typology of Gloranthan magic into theism, animism, and wizardry (and mysticism).
No more, no less.
> If you want a term to identify
> some concept then the best course of action is to coin a
> new word to describe it and say "X are like defiant entities
> except that..." instead of changing a defined term so that you
> can just add unrelated entities to it.
Frankly, Peter, you're the one wanting to change the defined term, not me.
ST p. 135
"Lhankor Mhy lived during the Golden Age, before many things were created or changed. He was the first to learn of the different Otherworlds, and he alone knew how to use all their magics. When the Spike was destroyed, it bacame harder to draw on the Otherworlds."
et cetera
Hmmm ... sound familiar ? Does it in fact sound *exactly* like what I am proposing, that an entity can be a defiant one by virtue of contact with the primal one-ness of the Gloranthan Court ?
Or will you insist that, in those days,
Lhankor Mhy was a god of Disorder ?
Julian Lord
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End of Glorantha Digest
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