Julian Lord:
> Ten-foot poles should be placed between
> Gloranthan ineffables and RW ones, even where
> (*especially* where) they appear to be similar.
I can't see why this would be much of a difficulty, if they really are in both cases treated as just that, ineffable. Granted if one believed one knew all the Ultimate Secrets of one of the one universe, and applied them to the other willy-nilly, that could be... problematic.
> One should certainly limit oneself in *all* cases to examining
> *actual Gloranthan theories* about the ineffable, such as the
> GL model, the Lunar one, various Malkioni ones etc.
Those are probably the best approach in almost every respect. OTOH, I'd consider comparisons with RW 'analogues' to be much the lesser offence than cut-and-dried mechanistic explanations of How Things Really Are, in some purportedly objective sense, with the Rules, and the Rules for the Exceptions to the Rules, etc. (Granting the obvious tension of needing/wanting the latter for the small matter of playing games with 'em...)
Naturally for the remainder of this post, and not to say frequently thereafter, very likely, I shall entirely ignore my own advice. Oh well.
[Vadrus]
> Doesn't he still exist as as enemy god,
> of the merpeople for example ?
>
> That was the main source of collateral worship I was thinking of ...
Interesting thought. My guess here would have to be that would, like his other powers and functions, have "devolved" to some offspring or other. This could be a "known", somewhere-worshipped being, or a "lost", unknown or forgotten such. One might imagine a portion of the god world with no current connection to the inner world, where the effect of this worship quietly 'pools'. Potentially nifty HQ fodder: (re)create that deity, and the appropriate rites and associations for using that magic.
In the extreme case, if the portion of his being that formerly received this worship has been destroyed utterly, the magic energy involved might be, as it were, pouring out of the universe...
In any of the above cases, the merfolk might be aware or unaware of this change. OT1H, still saying dire imprecations against [their name for] Vadrus, but this now magically 'pointing' to a different being (or none); or OTOH being fully aware that some other deity has assumed the role, and referring to same explicitly.
Charles Corrigan:
> It seems, from his recent postings, that Greg is reconsidering his
> classification of the Outer world as being an otherworld, in particular
> the Hero Plane. And this is a Good Thing (TM).
I thought Greg's exposition of this (as of about two Tentacleses ago) was that the underworld was _not_ an otherworld, at least in the same sense that those of sorcery etc are. (Or is that what you're saying he's reconsidering from, rather than what he's reconsidering to -- or am I missing various intermediate developments...) In particular he seemed to be saying that the Underworld is _not_ "nourished by the transcendent" in the sense these others are. Presumably, rather, it is by things dying and thereby entering into it.
One could blow a mental gasket attempting to work out "where" or "what" the equivalent to the UW "was" between the Worlds separating/becoming aware of their distinctness, and the first death occurring -- for example for the purposes of Uz mythtreking. But methinks this would be infernally hard to test (quite literally), and I doubt the trolls are much bothered by such questions.
Antonio Alvarez del Cuvillo:
> (1)-The Underworld as an Outer World, an 'almost geographical' location
> (Altinela, Luathela, Sky World, etc). Of course, it's mixed.
> (2)-The Underworld as a place for ancient myths, which is in the Hero Plane
> (for example, you re-enact the LBQ, you are in the Hero Plane and you go to
> the Underworld. It's also mixed.
These are essentially parallel things; they're the same (and different) in the same sense yonder law rock was the same (and different) was last Age, or in the Gods War. And they each at their 'edges' (and in certain other places, as with the Inner World) blur into the appropriate otherworld.
> (3)-The Underworld as a trascendent Other World (I mean, part of Spirit
> Plane, Divine Plane, Sorcery Plane), which is perhaps a deeper level than
> (1).
I think it's not so much a 'separate' Other World, as that portion of the other side where such distinctions (the essential thing that makes the sorcery plane the sorcery plane, etc) have broken down (or in its deepest, most dark and secret places, never were). So it's not that Kyger Litor's domain is demonstrably separate or distinct from the God World (say), as that it's not possible to constrain or comprehend it as being entirely within it.
> There would be a lot of differents Underworlds: Subere's Realm or Ty
> Kora Tek's, etc.
As Charles says, while these would be often spoken of by Gloranthans as 'separate' places/planes (The Fourth Hell or such-and-such's Underworld/Land of the Dead/whatever), in rules/GL terms they're all simply portions of that World.
The infamous "Lunar Hell" of Sheng and Hofstaring could be a mystical domain beyond the ordinary otherworlds; or it could be a portion of the Underworld, simply very 'poorly connected' to other such places, and the knowledge of the few paths that take one there being beyond the knowledge of the gods themselves -- except those with access to that particular Lunar Truth, of course. I think it pretty much amounts to the same thing, really. (At least until such time as the HeroQuest Mysticism Handbook comes out to prove me wrong.)
Cheers,
Alex.
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