RE: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #444 - 5 msgs

From: Antonio Alvarez del Cuvillo <antalvarez1976_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:50:24 +0200


Greg Stafford:
> Wherein incompelte = failed, like a dervish samauri kung fu jedi would be.
> This whole idea is sort of a subset of mysticism, whereas mysticism is an
excepion to normal rules, and it is an exception to >an exception. Hence, not worth putting into the HQ rules themselves.

I agee, if you are talking about the HeroQuest rulebook, which will have a limited number of pages. But, in other future books we'll need rules for Illumination, siddhi-like powers, and things like that. I think we need not rules for 'true' mysticism (we would be entangled in the illusory rules in our path to trascendance ;-)))

OTOH, I don't believe that 'mysticism' is an exception to the normal rules, in your definition. Mysticism isn't rules; it isn't a separate system of magic, it isn't magic at all (magic='maya', the sustance of 'illusory' reality). Trascendence need not rules, it is always beyond the rules.

But, in Glorantha there are people who use trascendental powers or trascendental magic, IMO. Illuminates, draconic magic, Sheng Sheleris, etc. It would be good, IMO, to make general rules for this sort of things, and to use some general name for that (trascendental magic?). The 'entangled mystic' take his understanding of trascendence (or simply deeper but not Ultimate levels of reality, you needn't have reached Ouroboros, only the True Dragons) to the illusory world. Using this magic, probably pollutes mystic's spiritual advancement, because manifestations of trascendence in illusory world are illusory (so True Dragons are more true than Dream Dragons, but are less true than Cosmic Dragons, etc). But, in fact, nobody knows, because the extremes are the same thing in Trascendence (trying to achieve trascendence could entangle you because your wish something, and your wish is false; or, failing could be the true path, who knows?). Or simply, we have not rules for trascendence, and it has no effect in the game (the magic has effect, the believing in that magic pollutes your paths also). Siddhi powers would be a good RW parallel for these sort of things.

> Whereas your definition above is pretty much correct, it's not mysticism
but bad mysticism. I agree that this exists. But it's >never good, it always results in error.

Probably, you have reason, but it is difficult (or imposible) to say intelligible things about trascendence and more difficult (or more impossible) give it consequences for the game.

For example, good and bad, don't exist in Trascendence (or are the same thing), so 'good mysticism' means nothing for a good mystic. ;-))

> > When the Alchemist become Immortal, he may
> >begin to look seriously
> >for trascendence.
>
> So they think!

But my point is: my alchemist PC thinks that he need to become inmortal for achieving Trascendence. He believes to follow a mystical path and certainly believes in some deep and true reality nor material nor immaterial. He has some strange powers. Probably, he is entangled in his search for immortality, he is in Error, he is in Illusion, etc. But it has no consequences in my game, because my game is not for trascendence (too difficult).

Of course, i'm too radical for explaining myself. Probably, the rules for siddhi or trascendental magic or trascendental alchemy or whatever would have to include some bad effect for using the powers. Simply, there are many paths of enlightement and most paths say 'using your powers for alter reality is bad', and, in fact, using your powers delays your advancement in your path. But nobody knows what is in the end of your path (and I don't want to play it).

Regards,

Antonio

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