Re: Help. Don't get it. Never really got it...

From: Graham Robinson <graham_at_albionsoft.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:42:51 +0100


I'll have a go at this, though I'm not sure you'll like the answers...

>So, problem one is - there is somewhere a single, true accounting of what
>happened. Mortals may not know it. The gods themselves may not know all of
>it, but it exists. What is it? Where can I find it?

Problem one is that your assumptions are false. There is no single, true account of want happened. Or at least, there effectively isn't. This is tied in with your statements in problem 2, on which more below. The problem is that you have a circular argument. Gods are real, because we can talk to them, gain magic from them. But how do we gain this magic? How do we partake of these conversations? Through Heroquesting. And, as you rightly say, Heroquesting allows us to "prove" as true anything we can force through...

So there is no basis for finding a singular, universal truth. Heroquests are too "localised" for that. Nick Brooke once wonderfully commented to me that the seven mothers had "realised" the link between the ancient moon goddesses and the future Rufelza, by which he meant "had made real" the link... A powerful heroquest can change reality for the whole world, a less powerful one only for the local area, or even one person. Each is "true" - we can prove its true, just come with me and meet the god yourself - but only for some value of "true".

So the "true account of what happened" can be no more than a series of vague statements about the nature of heroquesting and the other side. (And if you want that, wait for Heroquests&Heroquesting to come out...) As for a narrative of how the gods war came about, orlanth killing yelm, etc. - what's the point? No one in Glorantha knows it or can know it, but they can all HQ to prove whatever version you believe is wrong. Myth is a living, changing, evolving beast. No point looking for a static original - it changes everytime you interact with it, albiet slowly.

>Problem 2:
>What is HeroQuesting? How does it work?
><snip>
>Basically, HeroQuesting becomes this complicated strategy of going back in
>time and tweaking and counter-tweaking things to alter the balance of power.
>Whatever god has more worshippers capable of heroquesting and/or can
>heroquest better (meaning make better tweaks - minimal force for maximal
>results) basically gets a serious upper hand, and is in a better position to
>respond to HeroQuest attacks.
>
>Besides altering the nature of reality, the HeroQuesters themselves can get
>seriously altered in this way.
>
>This all posits that a single HeroQuest can not cause a god to just vanish -
>but it does show that a series of HeroQuests could - assuming the god's
>worshipers never succeed in counter-questing.
>
>So - is that how other people see it? Way off base? Close?

I dislike the "time travel" twist, but otherwise agree with this. Myths are tied to the timeless pre-time era, whenever that is for your culture. By interacting with this through the power of the heroquest you can discover new myths, new twists on existing myths, and special exceptions to old rules. These myths have always been true, just no one realised them before. (And yes, that's Nick's double edged meaning again...)

BUT, and its a big but, you can't change history. You can't go back to Castle Blue and kill the goddess before she gains exceptance. You can't travel back to the darkness and kill Heort. You can only gain new insights that will help you now.

Can you make a god vanish? Yes, I think so. But be careful. Gods are normally supported by many mythologies other than their own. Everyone now knows that the Dara Happan Yelm is "the same" as the Orlanthi Evil Emperor. Whether this was once true or not is irrelevant - now it is... Every time the Orlanthi ceremonies call for their gods to protect them from the Emperor, they are also reasserting Yelm's existence.

>Problem #3:
>
>Assuming #2 is valid, I guess that is what the God Learners were doing,
>right? They were basically codifying their own version of celestial history
>and embarking on HeroQuests to rearrange the universe in a manner pleasing
>to them. Clearly, they managed to seriously piss off enough gods that the
>gods decided it was time to get rid of them.

The God Learners stole this from the Arkati - Arkat being the first to realise this was possible, and the first to abuse it for his own ends. One of the Arkati (possibly Arkat, I don't know...) was also the first to realise the danger that this power represented. Early manuscripts for Heroquest (some of which will be auctioned at Tentacles...) were full of mentions of encountering Arkati on the hero planes, there to stop the worst abuses. I don't think this was the behaviour that got the Godlearners wiped out - they managed to survive for several centuries after they started these researches. The Secret that got them wiped out must have been much worse...

Cheers,
Graham

-- 
Graham Robinson
graham_at_albionsoft.com

Albion Software Engineering Ltd.


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