simon_hibbs2 <simon.hibbs_at_marconi.com> wrote:
>
> I think you're right so far, although when you talk about Zorak
> Zoran being kin, you're off base. ZZ is not a troll, but purely a
> thing of darkenss.
I meant he's kin just in the sense that he, like Kyger Litor, is a darkness spirit, and a descendent of... Nakala, was it? (But do the Uz even believe in Nakala? For them, Subere seems to take the role of "primal darkness"...)
> Vivamort doesn't have the man rune - Darkness, Chaos and Undeath
> (Hunger), IIRC - and non-man-like creatures can become vampires.
I think the sources are mixed on this one. In Cults of Terror, it says Vivamort "prefers to corrupt the lineage of Grandfather Mortal" (which, I assume, means "Man-rune creatures"), but it then lists as examples both Ducks and Baboons. Now, Baboons evidently view themselves as Men, not Beasts (since they believe that they are the only true version of the Man form, all others having lost their hair). But Ducks are surely Beasts, yes? So I guess we have to consider that source suspect. Hrm.
Anyway, if vampires are limited to man-shaped forms, my supposition holds. If they can create Morokanth or Sky Bull vampires, forget I said anything...
Alex Ferguson <abf_at_csmail.ucc.ie> wrote:
>
> I'm with Jamuz on this one: I think that's a rather GLish outlook,
> or at the very least, a human, rather than trollish one. Uz don't
> regard KL, I don't think, as a second-order result of two more
> 'fundamental' principles, but as a rather more basic archetype unto
> Herself.
I kind of agree. Let me sort out my opinions on this: I think Uz view themselves as, well, just Uz, not as a composite of two fundamental forms. But I think they *do* acknowledge that Darkness is part of what it means to be Uz. Thus, while a hooman God-Learner might say, "Uz are the result of merging Darkness with Man", an Uz God-Learner would say something like "Hoomans are the result of somehow removing all the Darkness from Uz". They'd disagree about which was the archetypal form, but they agree on a practical level--that the difference between humans and Uz is the presence or absence of Darkness.
BTW, there is a version of the Kyger Litor story in which KL is originally a purely Darkness being who volunteers to "mate with" the Man rune, producing Uz. Is this a strictly Human and/or GL story, or do the trolls have something analogous?
James Frusetta <gerakkag_at_wam.umd.edu> wrote:
>
> I'd played around a bit with this with the Kozuru back in
> BoDR:D. The thing is, Vampires are very human-culturally
> specific; as far as trolls are going to be concerned, stuff
> that eats peoples during the night isn't so scary, really;
> being cold to the touch is *good*; avoiding light is a smart
> thing to do.
I think Trolls might have a monster which fills the same role, for them, as vampires do for dayfolk--an intangible, hungry, *fire* being, for example (which I think was how you described the Kozuru on your website?). But besides that, they would also, surely, be aware of the vampires which *humans* fear, if only because they sometimes run into each other (say, while training for His Red Imperial Majesty's Night-time Asskickers Legion). Perhaps there's some minor fire monster the humans know about which utterly terrifies Trolls, and contrariwise the Trolls know about human vampires but aren't much scared of them.
BTW, it's always been my private theory that Greg made the death-rune a Latin Cross precisely so he could shoe-horn the "crosses scare vampires" thing into Glorantha... any basis for this theory of mine?
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