> I meant he's kin just in the sense that he, like Kyger Litor, is a darkness
> spirit, and a descendent of... Nakala, was it? (But do the Uz even believe
> in Nakala? For them, Subere seems to take the role of "primal darkness"...)
Actually, I think Stephen's old "Seven Darknesses" probably fits the bill -- the idea being that for uz, Subere is a darkness, but not really close family, she's a completely different kind of darkness (and a scary icky one to boot). With that in mind, I'd argue (through my own oversized floppy hat) uz probably don't worry about Nakala *too* much. The "beginning of darkness" is too impersonal, if even it ever happened (rather, it was darkness all the way back, as it were). Nakala is something the Hoomans came up with, to explain the whole celestial court thing -- and that some uz probably picked up back from them. Given that worshipping her should give nothing ('coz she's dead), she's not all that important. ; )
> Anyway, if vampires are limited to man-shaped forms, my supposition holds.
> If they can create Morokanth or Sky Bull vampires, forget I said anything...
I'd *think* in theory they could vampirize just about anything, be it Morokanth, Sky Bull or (shudder) Duck, but this is beyond my baliwick. I suppose once you get to weird Otherworld entities, the vampire can't do much. Vampire hellions? Vampire lunes? Vampire Maidstone Archers? (boggle)
> merging Darkness with Man", an Uz God-Learner would say something like
> "Hoomans are the result of somehow removing all the Darkness from Uz".
Now, yes, this is far too much fun *not* to keep around, IMO. I don't know how many uz would say it, but I'd bet it *has* been said, and probably picked up by some weird humans. *Screams* Shadow Plateau or Blue Moon, just for the chance to have some bunch of freakish humans trying to "get their darkness back" and turn into trolls, which nearly all sane trolls think of as being, as it were, cuckoo for coacoa puffs.
Though to be fair, I'd say that humans are only *one possible result* from removing the darkness from an auz.
> They'd disagree about which was the archetypal form, but they agree on a
> practical level--that the difference between humans and Uz is the presence
> or absence of Darkness.
Stepping on a limb, I'd disagree -- KL *is* the primal difference, because IMO you can have "darkness men" (let's say) that still aren't trolls. Trolls recognize other races of the darkness, after all -- Mee Voralans being one (which are, awk, plant-man-darkness in the GL schema?), freaks like the Kitori apparently being another. What I'm getting at (admittedly without much proof) is that, IMO, there's room in the Underworld for races of human-types with darkness links that *aren't* trolls, but are "darkness humans" of some sort.
Hmm. I should think on it, but I'm not sure KL/trolls are the *only* possible man rune / dark rune combo, in GL terms. Or, in other words, stuffing darkness into men doesn't automatically make them trolls. Perhaps, to use your terminology, Kyger Litor's covenant is what allows darkness and man to mix "properly" or some such.
Argh, now I'm talking like a Godlearner.
> Uz. Is this a strictly Human and/or GL story, or do the trolls have
> something analogous?
FWIW, I think most of the original trollpak is "humanized" to some degree -- it seems odd the uz would dwell on so many freakish hooman details in the histories, for example. Not a criticism of it, mind, just a comment, and it's *portrayed* that way: "here's what the human scholar says about uz."
Humans, various stories go, were shaped that way because the other gods envied Kyger Litor, were shaped that way because they were trolls that were bad and punished into not being trolls anymore, etc., etc. Being nonhuman, it's even possible that trolls never really think about it.
> I think Trolls might have a monster which fills the same role, for them, as
> vampires do for dayfolk--an intangible, hungry, *fire* being, for example
> (which I think was how you described the Kozuru on your website?).
Oh, yeah, I'd put it on the website, too, duh. The BoDR:D writeup was much better, though. If you're keen on the vampire link, remind me, I'll run a xerox of the article if you'd like it. Or pester Stephen to put 'em all on a CD as a reprint, heh heh.
> besides that, they would also, surely, be aware of the vampires which
> *humans* fear, if only because they sometimes run into each other (say,
> while training for His Red Imperial Majesty's Night-time Asskickers Legion).
Scene in the Imperial Palace in Glamour: TROLL: "Oh, excuse me, is there a bathroom around here?" VAMPIRE: "Sorry, never use them myself." BROO: "Actually, yes, just down the hall there, second door on the left. Make sure to use the door marked 'External male genitalia,' though." TROLL: "Great, thanks!"
> BTW, it's always been my private theory that Greg made the death-rune a
> Latin Cross precisely so he could shoe-horn the "crosses scare vampires"
> thing into Glorantha... any basis for this theory of mine?
Well, the *Orthodox* cross's second and third bars do disqualify it from being shaped like a sword, so it has to be a Latin cross. ; )
HUMAKT: <Stab, stab, stab> "Crap!"
ZORAK ZORAN: "Ha, ha!"
HUMAKT: "Dammit! I gotta take these extra bitz off, this thing can't
stab worth a damn -- urk!" <thud>
Cheers,
James
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End of Glorantha Digest
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