http://www.sacred-texts.com/ich/index.htm
Plus is Yang, Minus is Yin.
RW Eight folded Yin and Yang Map:
Sky (+++)
Valley (++-)
Fire (+-+)
Thunder (+--)
Wind (-++)
Water (-+-)
Mountain (--+)
Earth (---)
And two different maps exist for the eight directions. (N, W, E, S and SW,
SE, NW, NE)
See below about the Fu-Xi's Map and King Wen's Map:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ich/icintr03.htm
Maybe I can simply apply Kra and Lor (Alex taught me) to the two principles, or not.
Alex Ferguson:
<<I think the Kralori definitely have some sort of Feng Shui, or in broader
terms, geomantic, practice. (snip) ). I think this manifests
at every scale, from the geography of the whole land, which the famous
bridges must somehow tie in with, right down to the right way to lay
out a simple peasant single-room hovel. (In fact, I feel certain the
one echoes the other, probably on some sort of eight-point "material
principle" (he said, carefully avoiding the use of the word "element")
scheme -- say, one must place the cooker in the south corner of the
room, the privy pot in the north corner, the woodpile by the SW wall,
etc.)>>
Henri Maspero: Great French Scholar of Chinoilism
http://www.eng.taoism.org.hk/daoist-world-today/academic-research-on-daoism/
pg6-4-8-3.asp
<<The term "Mysticism" is used for very many meaning, and in usual case it
ended to the "irrational" to the course. But in the narrow categorization I
want to use here, it is to commune and identify themselves with
Absolute....>>
*I think these Mechanical, human-centered structure is far more appropriate for Glorantha West than "Mystical" East.
I agree, and that is why the European Philosophy of Enlightenment Age, Chinese Culture was greatly revered. For its rationality, concept of civilian control and the attitude of "take a distance from religion".
Excerpt from my LurNop note:
<<Elementalists of Glorantha
Except a few of residents of Glorantha like Pharaoh’s Holy Country, many of
them (like Troll, Orlanthi, Dara Happan, Teshnan, etc…) rejects the
equality of each elements aside from objective truth of it in a sense. (See
Hero Wars 1st Edition, p239-240 Elemental Progression) I think Kralori
Alchemists are in such minority and Pharaoh built his famous six magical
bridges to each countries copying with the Godunya’s way to the Seven
Bridges of Suam Chaw, between Hum Chang and Vaska Long. (It seems it has
some connection to Seven Provinces now sank under Suam Chow.)
(Joerg Baumgartner’s Objection: Belintar made only one single magical
bridge which has one end firmly rooted
in the City of Wonders and the other one in the most holy place of each
sixth ・瘢雹near Stormwalk Mountain in Heortland, near the Tarpit on Shadow
Plateau, near Ernalda (or the Necropolis) in Esrolia, near the Vent in
Caladraland, near Seapolis in the Rightarm Isles, and near Casino Town (not
Clanking City) in God Forgot.
The Bridge is not a permanent construction, unlike the city-sized inhabited bridges across the Suam Chow.
Godunya's bridges ・瘢雹especially the ones with the gaps ・瘢雹serve as exercises to enlightenment as much as as transportation and communication means. Belintar's Bridge is a magical convenience with the side effect of providing transport.)
RW Chinese Fortune-Telling Art and Principle of Yin and Yang was very
important and almost indispensable in Chinese Cosmology and a sort of state
religion, for their attach to historical record unlike to Hinduistic India.
(See some speculations of Journey to the West) I think this kind of Art also
exists in Glorantha…..though I don’t know they still use Godlearnish (more
attached to Gloranthan objective truth?) System of Five Elements (Darkness,
Sea, Earth, Fire and Air) or similar to RW Chinese Five Elements as Peter
Metcalph pointed out in his “Crimson Greg”.
(Joerg Baumgartner’s Other comments: There is one parallel between
Kethaela's Universe in a nutshell and Godunya. Godunya's participation in
the Grand Dragon project which had all the EWF as parts of the EWF dragon.
Apart from that, Belintar encourages his subjects to be true to their native
element, as his means to gain maximum
magic out of his realm.
Maybe compare Sandy's article on elements (via Lokarnos).)>>
Exarch of Seven Dragons (Leader of All Kralori Army) Seven Dragons: Sky?
(See my Kralori Night Sky)
Efendi's Rationalist Logic (TI agreed partly.)
<<The most well-known plan of Feng-Shui applied to City Design is the composition of water in east and south,, mountain in north and west.
It seems that they are attributed to Four Beasts attributed dimensions,
dragon is water god, and tiger is in mountain, but how about bird and
turtle?
Maybe I can attach Turtle to Watery realm. (But I don't know the North Beast
can be simply identified to "Turtle".)
<<See Rice Mother's Description in Auld Glorantha Prosopaedia, it is the
North
Divine Animal, Turtle and Snake in RW Four Dimensional Animals. (Recently
she was called Miyo.)
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/r.html#rice-mother (TI)>>
IMHO, this composition was from the Glorious Days of Chang'An (Modern Xi'an) that had east and south is water, north and west is mountain. It is apprent that Chang'An is the strategic position and good for traffic, and the base of Tang Dynasty (most prosperous age of RW China) was in the northwest of Central Valley, and horses from that area were also a strength for them...... that was the reason why they positioned their capital to the west, not east of their empire.>>
<<Feng-Shui is not so simple, many of modern Eastern People still be deceived for its complicated logic and see the square shape of Ancient City Plans and that of Earth Cult of glorantha. Is there any "rational" reason they should make their city square? :-)
Excuse me....Recently I read too many feng-shui books and arts. If you have interested in this topic, I could find some good (japanese) books, not so superstitious, from good chinoiserist. (TI)>>
Godlearners systemized Five Mythic Ages, Darkness, Sea, Earth, Sky and Air.
(See Wyrm's Footprint: Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha)
(But Greg Stafford has taken more and more other local sources in the
process of his cultivating Glorantha, and consquently lost some (much?)
importance and it became light theme in the Hero Wars game, see 1st Edition
page 239, 241)
Creation Cycle
Darkness -> Water (Zaramaka from Styx)
Water -> Earth (Ga from Sramak)
Earth -> Sky (Aether from Gata)
Sky (and Earth) -> Air (Umath from Aether)
Air -> Darkness (Orlanth kills Yelm)
Destruction Cycle
Earth -> Darkness (Kyger Litor conquered Hurtplace)
Darkness -> Sky (See Four Arrows of Light and Komosha killed Korasting)
Sky -> Water (Lorian invaded Dayzatar Realm)
Water -> Storm (Storm Brothers raped Sea Goddesses (Piscoi))
Storm -> Earth (Orlanth is a slave of Ernalda :-))
Compare them with Chinese traditional Five Elements
Creation Cycle
Wood -> Fire
Fire -> Earth (Ash?)
Earth -> Metal Metal -> Water Water -> Wood
Destruction Cycle
Wood -> Metal
Metal -> Fire
Fire -> Water
Water -> Earth
Earth -> Wood
You can made them into Pentagram......Try it.
*Why do you want to make Kralorela another LE? I think LE is similar to RW Ancient China.....?
Yes, I agree Greg used some Chinese (and Ancient MesoAmerica?) idea for Pelorian Trilogy....
See Rice Mother's Description in Auld Glorantha Prosopaedia, it is the North
Divine Animal, Turtle and Snake in RW Four Dimensional Animals. (Recently
she was called Miyo.)
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/r.html#rice-mother
Why Godunya doesn't wear metal? Maybe he is applied in the cosmology of Five Elements. Maybe he was attribute to Wood Element? http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/g.html#godunya
*God Emperor Fu-Xi (Fu Hsi)'s Map
Sky (+++) South
Valley (++-) Southeast
Fire (+-+) East
Thunder (+--) Northeast
Wind (-++) Southwest
Water (-+-) West
Mountain (--+) Northwest
Earth (---) North
My Image of Thalurzni's Mandala is that of Fu-Xi's map, for he made it from
the shape of serpents from water.
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/f/fu_xi.html
http://www.chinaknowledge.org/History/Myth/myth.htm
I made his rune "Storm" as he literally vanished Four Former Elements to
Chern Durel. Maybe the map in a sense of latter (King Wen's Map?) has Moon
Rune as the "Balance" of Old Four (Darkness, Sea, Earth and Sky) and New
(Storm)..... perfectly IMHO.
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/ThaEngFourGangs.htm <<When HeenMaroun reigned Kerendaruth, he created four Virtues attributed four Directions, North was Innocence, West was Intelligence, East was Wonder, South was Pleasure. All were needs for limited human which still have no access to Draconic Secret. But as Time passed, all Four depraved from end and Edge. So Ignorance coming from Innocence, Materialism coming from Intelligence, Illusion coming from Wonder, Indolence coming from Pleasure. So Daruda changed his World and handed his Mundane Power to Thalurzni.>>
<<In Far Northeast, abandoned place after reign of Metsyla (Plutarch: That place is now called Koromandol.) Shadow Cancer appeared as horrible Power of Darkness which eating almost all of Creation and Light for her appetite and hatred. As same as that place, in Chern Durel and Jankley Bore, Earth Eater coming from Great Shrine root of Zeral Fen. It started going forth to Southward more nourishment of Land Splendour. Secret Water rising from Deep hidden Water under earth solid rock from southeast of Kralorela and secretly plotted to breaking down surface to Depth of Water. Finally in Upper Sky of southwestern dome of Heaven and Verenela, Star Permutator selfishly changes the star orders and constallations while vacancy of Maluraya, viceroy of the noon.>>
It seems Greg influenced by the Chinese myth that Emperor Shun banished Four Monsters to the frontier and made them into the guardians of Four
Directions. (Like Demon Taotie http://www.chinaknowledge.org/Art/BronzeMetal/taotiepic.htm ) http://www.pantheon.org/articles/s/shun.html
King Wen's (King Ji Chang's) Map
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/westzhou.htm#table
Sky (+++) Northwest
Valley (++-) West
Fire (+-+) South
Thunder (+--) East
Wind (-++) Southeast
Water (-+-) North
Mountain (--+) Northeast
Earth (---) Southwest
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ich/icintr03.htm
Analysis of Kralori History from Geomantics (How to make farfetched thesis):
After Meng-zi (
http://www.chinaknowledge.org/Literature/Classics/classics.htm#mengzi )
justified "revolution" (I don't know this japanese modern translation is
appropriate for the very Confucian concept, but it means the change of
dynasties allowed by the Tien, (Sky, Rightful Destiny or Fate) ) And
elemental attribution was always made in each changes of RW Chinese
Dynasties.....if I try to apply them into Kralori Emperors.....for they
don't have dynasty. Different from RW. (RW Reverse can be found again in
Kralorela (long remained one (draconic) dynasty in a sense) while Vormain
has experienced many (21!) dynasties.....)
According to Creation Cycle
Metsyla Fire
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/m.html#metsyla
Shavaya Earth
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/s.html#shavaya
(Sekever)
Daruda Fire
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/d.html#daruda
Thalurzni Storm
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/t.html#thalurzni
Mikaday Darkness
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/m.html#mikaday
Vayobi Water
(Sekever)
Vayobi (again)
Vashanti Earth
Yanoor Fire
(ShangHsa) Water?
Godunya Earth
http://www.glorantha.com/library/prosopaedia/g.html#godunya
(Sheng Seleris)
Godunya (again)
According to Destruction Cycle
Metsyla
Shavaya
(Sekever) Storm (Fire)
Daruda Earth (Water)
Thalurzni Darkness (Storm)
Mikaday Fire (Earth)
Vayobi Water (Darkness)
(Sekever)
Vayobi (again)
Vashanti Storm (Fire)
Yanoor Earth (Water)
(ShangHsa) Darkness (Storm)
Godunya Fire (Earth?)
(Sheng Seleris) Water (Darkness?)
Godunya (again)
Maybe you don't see the beauty of these farfetched logic, but that is the basic of so called Feng-Shui. Combining these, Yin and Yang, Five Elements, Two Mystical Maps and each of birthing day to all of phenomena, Ancient Chinese made very unique philosophy.....and RW modern feng-shui is no exception. Please start from them, if you want to make another (paranoia) second world.......
*Why there is no Great Darkness in Vithela?
Martalak thought he experienced Nightmare, fought enemies long without the
Sun, Maluraya and Stars....outside the support of his father, Vith. But he
was wrong.
When returned the land beyond Sensan, he realised Only One day and Night
passed, Martalak realised he spent the outside of
Vith's Blessing...(Vithelan Perspective to Other Area: Storm Age and Great
Darkness Age....? See Chinese Legend...Dream of Handan.)
http://www.chinaknowledge.org/History/Zhou/mapZhanguo.JPG
*Closing Effect of Melib (Martin Hawley ignored that the channel unavailable for closing in Four Scrolls of Revelation? Teshnos- Melib?)
*Kralori Geomancers in 17C Dragonpass
Kralori Geomantry is not so sophisticated as that of RW Chinese, for they exclude the two extremes of Sky and Earth, for they thinks it indicates Un Lo and Orxilli (?)
Hand Sign of Kralori Geomancers
They make Honey Bee hub with their forefingers and thumbs (hexangular),
which means their cosmology Glorantha.
Dogsalu was born from Hakka (Doubt) and Chelen (Desire), see Peter
Metcalph's Idea Dogsalu = TarnGatHa, maybe this idea made a distance Kralori
cosmology from that of Vithelans.......
http://www2u.biglobe.ne.jp/~BLUEMAGI/LandofVithela.htm
Why they visits Dragonpass in 1620th S.T, Hero Wars? (See "Barbarian Adventures")
"Both MaoTzen (Shang Hsa, called Jerem at that period) and Godunya came here and experienced the magic of evil Hemkarbans (Dragonpass) for their mastery of Elements, Fire (Red), Earth (Green) and Darkness (Black) to raise them to overthrow former emperor, remember Dragon's Awakening Shudder...."
They long planned to awake Earth Dragon in foreign land for their own use,
(They remember the damage of Dragon Awakening Shudder.) And they felt the
great presence of Dragonvein near the Stormwalk Mountain Hidden Valley,
unfortunately, it was recently occupied by North Evil Red Moon enforcers and
sorcerers who had their own plan to the Unknown Presence which had great
magical pulse to their ignorant big building (i.e. Temple of the Reaching
Moon.) But Kralori thinks they can exploit barbarian rebels (who had their
Ancient Memory with Youf and Hemkarban Way) to uprise against them.
Maybe you might find some good inspiration from the texts: http://www.chinaknowledge.org/Literature/Diverse/shanhaijing.htm
--__--__--
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