>> Jeff Richard
> said:
>>> Huh? The Orlanthi myth is verifiably true - many ancient ancestors >>> came with Orlanth from the Spike (and you can go on heroquests and >>> experience it for yourself).
> Joerg replied:
>> I'll have to (mis-?) quote Jane: This is regarding only a minority of
>> the Orlanthi, the male half (mostly).
> May I ask for a source citation that indicates that the migrants form the > Spike were male and not female?
Orane is specifically mentioned as female migrant, so I overstated things somewhat.
TR p.228 (the Varanorlanth myth) tells us about "Orlanth's Sisters". Apart from this collective term, they never appear anywhere. Daughters of Kero Fin? Umath's nameless daughters?
Orlanth brought his people from Dini, on the upper slope of the Spike. He led them on the Downland migration through the lowlands where Durev settled with Orane, and then up into the highlands around Kero Fin. This is when Vingkot is born as leader to the On Jorri people, and later all four of the pre-Vingkotlings.
However, things in Ernaldan mythology (TR) and recently in DP:LoT suggest Orlanth and Ernalda's wedding taking place in Dragon Pass. I.e. after the Downland migration.
Basically, the Downland migration myths are about Orlanth Adventurous, unwed and looking for females to mate with and opponents to fight. It starts on the slopes of the Spike, near Umath's camp, and it sweeps up the descendants of Grandfather Mortal/Havan Vor as well as the Thunder Brothers.
Durev and Orane settling down marks the beginning of the Allfather myths. It's Orlanth tamed by Ernalda all over, and is placed in the middle of the Downland migration. Still, Orlanth's Wedding is the final of the Young Orlanth Adventurous myths (although there is another Adventurous cycle of myths during Orlanth's Exile).
>> About half the people who made up the Orlanthi came from Peloria or were
>> already resident in the area and joined the Orlanthi in the Wedding of
>> Orlanth and Ernalda. Ernalda's daughters brought their lowfire husbands,
>> too, and probably other elemental associations as well.
> Likewise, may I ask for a source citation on this as well?
Thunder Rebels (TR) p.190, First Fire Day names all of Mahome's brothers and their handmaiden wives. This implies strongly that Ernalda's folk present on the wedding included them and their followers, from the Fire Tribe. The tale of Orlanth's wedding has Orlanth's and Ernalda's folk divided by the Dragonspine, and implies that about half of the people came with Ernalda. Now Orlanth's wedding takes place in Dragon Pass, in the mythic cycle that's after the Downland migration, and after Orlanth liberating Ernalda (and killing the Bad Emperor of the Fire Tribe).
I'm away from my print sources, and my database still has gaps in TR and hardly any Storm Tribe info. I can do a thorough research for you if you like.
>> Vingkot is one of several Orlanthssons from a mortal mother, and of a
>> very
>> minor people (the On Jorri), too. Drorgalar (ancestor of the Harandings)
>> didn't make it that far to godhood. Others now are included in or
>> associated with the Thunder Brothers. The Praxians doubtlessly already
>> were in the rough region, and there are myths of intermarriage (Vingkot
>> and a daughter of Tada, for instance, and where did Ulanin come from?)
> I do not dispute that these above named folks are (generally) from outside > the Orlanth Family.
We also have the unnamed wives of Kodig, Korol, Lastralgor and Jorganos appearing from thin air (unlike their sisters' husbands), or rather from fertile earth. This half (well, quarter) of the founding of the Vingkotlings is yet untold.
Basically, it boils down to the sequence of Orlanth's Wedding and the Downland Migration. Did Ernalda bring her daughters etc. to Dini and marry Orlanth there, or did this happen in Dragon Pass? On the God Plane, there is no locational difference, but on the mythic maps there is.
IMO we have Orlanth and Ernalda in small scale on the Downland migration in the aspects of Durev and Orane. In large scale, Orlanth and Ernalda wed after Vingkot settles Dragon Pass. This solves the trouble with cyclical time for me, having the early family elements with Durev and the royal wedding of Orlanth and Ernalda (Vingkot and the Summer Wife?) in Dragon Pass.
The Clan-Making Dance and the Making of the Storm Tribe are probably early Vingkotling Era myths. The Downland Migration apparently has no specific clan tales.
Wearing my RuneQuest Sight spectacles, I'm inclined to take "Orlanth" and "Ernalda" entirely out of the historical musings and make Varanorlanth, Vingkot, Durev and possibly others the actors. The Umathsons cycle repeats with the Vingkotssons, including the defeated brother (Lastralgor) and the brother taken out of the equation (Second Son). This is fun to mull over. It needn't really be true, but this is my way of extracting "history" out of myth.
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End of Glorantha Digest
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