> > I agree that the Pentans are not evil but it does not follow that Sheng
> > Seleris is not evil.
>
>What's the definition of Evil? Everything is under relative evaluation if
>you don't have absolute criteria.
I generally think of Sheng as evil in the same way that the Kingdom of War is evil.
> > I do not believe Godunya can pass on through Utuma. He has already done
> > so when Sheng Seleris came and negated that by his return. Now he
> lingers in
> > a senile state waiting for a natural end.
>
>This is new theory, certainly.
Actually it was in the original glorantha: intro drafts.
> > I don't know where the Mandarin = Vashanti comes from. Mandarins are
> > explicitly stated as beginning with Mikaday.
>I think Mikaday started such, but Vashanti recovered (by its own fashion)
>after Vayobi's militaristic Era and much oblivion.
That doesn't seem right to me. Although the Sagely tradition could have been modified in Vashanti's era as part of a general recovery, it doesn't seem right to me that Vashanti modified an existing order rather creating something new.
>Mark Galeotti didn't openly say so, but hinted such and scribes are of
>Vashanti.
I'm dubious of the hint and have had several bad experiences with such.
>Currently, my main concern is Chi Ting. Bitter Struggle of Eunuchs and
>Mandarins.
I also include the army in that struggle. Again this is something that I wrote for the glorantha: intro.
Archexarch of War
[...]
The appearance of Ships from Kethaela at the Opening was a shock and
a fright for the Kralori. But [the Archexarch] acted promptly and
decisively.
He breached palace protocol by going over the heads of the leading
eunuchs
and alerted Godunya to the new threat. His prompt action secured the
quick mobilization of the Navy that sank the fleet of western
devils with
minimal loss of life. [The Archexarch] was astute enough to
praise Godunya
for his wise leadership. When his predecessor admitted blame for
the initial
invasion and committed utuma, loud cheers and inward groans
greeted his
induction as Seven Dragon and Wisdom, the Archexarch of War.
[The Archexarch] has been irritated by the attention paid to Yao
Fune's
senseless ravings. He would persuade Godunya to quash the whole thing
for once and for all but the Eunuchs have barred him from entering
the Palace
for his earlier slights upon their protocol. Every day, he
visibly chafes when he
is debriefed on the worsening crisis in Chern Durel. The
Mandarins all smirk
when they hear of how ChungKwo has been confounded by a naked hermit.
Yao Fune
[...]
Kralorela's woes, Yao Fune stated, stem from its method of
renouncing the
outside world. Instead of rejecting all contact, it actively
compels the outside
world to stay away and in doing so, it commits error. If
Kralorela renounced
war forever then it would draw closer to the Cosmic Dragon so much
that even
the Seven Flooded Provinces would be restored to their original
splendor.
Yao Fune's answer took Kralorela by storm. Many Exarchs were pleased to
hear it for they longed for a chance to humble the Archexarch of War, whom
they felt was "over proud, over mighty and over us". Others were doubtful for
they lived near the borders and the Archexarch of War even threatened to
thrash Yao Fune for filling people's heads with such confounded nonsense.
But he had powerful enemies in the palace eunuchs for his brutal slaughter
of several companies of eunuch guards when the Western Fleet appeared.
They wasted no time in persuading Godunya to summon a Circle of Learning
to study Yao Fune's advice and even suggested the scholars and sages
whom they felt were most suitable.
After several years of deliberations, the Circle finally proposed
a funeral for the
outside world as a partial test. If it worked, so well and good,
Kralorela would
abandon all War forever. If not, then no more need be heard about
it. The
Funeral was held last year and even Godunya made one of his rare
appearances
and smiled at the Archexarchs as if they were faintly familiar to
him. A statue of
Sheng Seleris was blessed and thrown beneath the waters to
indicate that no
longer would he be propitiated. The Archexarch of War fumed
throughout the
funeral and afterwards ordered several regiments to commit utuma
for insufficient
discipline.
All Kralorela is waiting for a sign to see whether the funeral has
succeeded or failed.
The Kingdom of Ignorance is arming and this worries many. The
Archexarch of War
has been threatened with an invitation to commit utuma if he dares
to violate the
spirit of the funeral and march against Ignorance.
>(Though
>Peter Metcalph rejected objective reality of MaoTzen = Jerem = Gilam De
>Estau....)
Just to make things clear, I deny that MaoTzen is Jerem. That he is Gilam D'estau's son and might be Gilam returned is something that I do not deny.
>Even in your Glorantha, I assume some (many?) people of Kralorela hate
>exarchs who fled to North and enjoyed good life by defeating mere trollkins
>while they suffered under the Yoke of ShangHsa and failed revolts of
>Heseroon Marn. Exarchs might have brought back Tantric Methods to mainland
>after Godunya overthrew ShangHsa, but some people (didn't escape from there)
>don't admit it is traditional way of Kralorela.
That's an interesting insight. That many Kralori sages practice magical techniques developed during their sojourn in the New Kingdom of Wisdom that are viewed as corrupt and ignorant by the mainstream.
>I still think there is some similarity to enigmatic Zolathi = Saka Morn sect
>and Kralori tantrism, but don't have strong opinion on it, except RW example
>that relationship between tibetan Sakya sect and Mongolian Empire.
Hmm. So Saka Morn could be an Ignorant practice that was purified during the New Kingdom of Wisdom? So that when Sheng Seleris studies it, he sees the evil possibilities latent in these teachings and succumbs?
> > Moreover I think here you are trying to conflate the Mandala (Circle of
> > Infinite Dragons) and the I Ching. I don't think they are the same
> > thing - one's to do with draconism and the other is a product of
> cosmological
> > evolution (hinted at the Myth of the Three against One).
>Your idea of Three against One is another new input. Then you think Three
>against One (Vithelan foreign idea) is a sort of I-ching. Mandala (In RW,
>Tantric) is more indegeneous....Again, ignoring RW source.
I should point out that I think the Mandala is a representation of the ancient Wheel of Life that was used by Shavaya and others. Hence it would be found not only in Kralorela but Teshnos (where they have dwarf made prayer wheels), Vormain and perhaps Ignorance. Daruda developed a draconic version of the Mandala.
As for the sorcerous I-Ching, it's as old as Vithela and might have been systemized in some prehistoric era.
--Peter Metcalfe
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End of Glorantha Digest
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