Jumping into what is obviously an on-going discussion, I note that
> From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)
Says
>>Of course, accepting Babs as the Earth Tribe's Death only makes me want
>>to see the Solar Death more. I actually think it could well be a version
>>of Humakt now, due to the heavy mixing of the myths.
I do not know what a "version of Humakt" means.
>>But I would say more
>>that they view Humakt as the Orlanthi name for their god of Death.
If they view it at all. The actual answer to this really depends on who is
talking. Most Dara Happans don't know squat about Humakt or the Orlanthi
except as "those bad guys down south."
Philosophers speaking abstractly will have several different perspectives,
based on heir opinion of Gloranthan "reality."
Comparative mythology is not acceptable to many of the conservative Dara
Happans, who view everything of the Orlanthi Way as being just wrong.
Etc.
>>I
>>suspect in the Solar version, Yelm (after being killed), has to collect
>>and control death for the safety of the world. So he makes someone do it.
>>So Death in Dara Happa is a loyal and impartial servent of Yelm, charged
>>with this duty. Assuming they know of Humakt at all, it is a case of the
> opposite of Elmal. A storm tribe diety who defects to the "proper" side
>>and takes responsibility for his actions. He is now neutral and impartial
>>death, loyal warrior in the Emporer's court.
The Terminator is of course the deliverer of Death.
The vile being that separated the souls of Murharzarm and sent the light
part scuttling out of the world.
And let us not forget the bat, released by his traitorous daughter
Verithurusa, who blinded him and made him susceptible to such separation
of souls.
> There is Kazkurtum the Dead God (ILH1 page 25)
Kazkurtum is more like a chaos god, not just death.
> who appears to be
> the Solar ruler of the dead. Between him, Shargash, Kastok and
> Urvairinus I'd say the Dara Happens have it covered without Humakt.
Actually the lords of the dead include Shargash Bijiif, Yelm Bijiif, Lodril Bijiif and some other Bijiifs.
> The Lunar pantheon will have their own death god(s) and spirits.
To quote from Under the Red Moon:
Gods of Death
Many forms of death exist and are known in the Empire. Philosophers know
them to be many masks of the same power that can sever the physical,
mortal portion of Life from its immortal parts. Here are some of the names
by which it is known in the Empire:
Ak (Pelanda): The =ECTerrible Wasp.=EE
Bijiif (Dara Happa): =ECKeeper of Bones.=EE
Hum=EDakt (Carmania): =ECLord of Severance.=EE
Huvaran (Rinliddi): =ECBat Goddess.=EE
And of course,
Blaskarth the world-killing Bat, of which the Crimson Bat is but a mere
shadow...
>> From: donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy)
>
>>> I'm sure there are spirits who guide the dead to their destination
>>> which is the equivelent.
In general, yes this is true.
>>
>>No, not really. Issaries guides the dead to their destination,
Issaries guides the dead of the Storm Pantheon, yes. Including those spirits of Kolat. But he does not guide the souls/spirits/essences of other pantheons.
>>but no
>>one in the Orlanthi pantheon thinks he is Death in the way Humakt is.
>
> Yes, that's a particularly odd split if you think about it. Two
> fairly important gods to handle a single thing.
If you look to Earth pantheons you will generally find that the psychopomp is different from the ruler of the Dead. Hermes and Pluto for instance.
> And then you've
> got Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek involved as well.
Heck, if you want to go there you have Orlanth, who entertains his dead warriors in his hall. And in general, the initiates of dead humans go to live with their deity whomever it was.
> If I was doing a God
> Learner style analysis I'd conclude that Humakt isn't an Orlanthi
> diety at all but a foreign import.
Although some Gloranthan philosophers consider this to be so, and have written extensively how his cult came from the west, it is not really so. Humakt was part of the Storm Tribe from the start.
> I wouldn't assume that the Orlanthi set of gods can be mapped
> directly onto other theistic pantheons, never mind onto animistic
> ones.
Absolutely correct. Correspondences exist in varying degrees of similarity. Archetypes (leadership, conflict, love, etc.) shine through but the archetypes are not worshipped, the "faces" are, the deities themselves.
> So turning up the two Unspoken Word books that detail animist
> traditions we get the Char-un who don't appear to have death
> spirits at all - indeed binding the spirit of the dead into
> the material plance is regarded as an honour.
Do not take that idea as Gloranthan canon.
> Then the Uz have
> the Jeset practice which is the Ferryman of the dead taking
> them to Wonderhome in the underworld.
Another psychopomp. To return the uz to a good life in Wonderhome after living a horrible existence in the hellish world of light.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Sincerely,
Greg Stafford
Issaries, Inc., publisher of HeroQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha.
P.O. Box 272914 Concord, CA 94527
See our site at <www.HeroQuest-rpg.com>.
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