Re: Humakt in Dara Happa

From: Paul Andrew King <paul_at_morat.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 08:09:31 +0100


>Paul Andrew King:
>
>>Me>Terminatus is the _weapon_ by which the Thunderer or Rebellus
>>>Terminus used to strike down Murharzarm.
>
>>See the quote from "The Other" you produce below. It identifies
>>Death as Rebellus Terminus/Erlandus.
>
>It identifies the _murderer_ of Murharzarm as Rebellus Terminus/
>Erlandus but _not_ as Terminatus.

I suggest you reread the section. The pronoun "him" must refer to Death, since there is no other mentioned.

[...]
>
>Because he hates the Ulerian Cult and hates the Storm worshipping
>Barbarians of the South. Anything on the Gods Wall that he cannot
>explain, he interprets to make Dara Happa Good and Everybody Else
>wicked or perverse.
>
>As for the argument of "some supporting tradition", that's rather
>weak considering that Plentonius spuriously identifies Doburdon
>as Antirius.

Yet he does not need to place the Dara Happan figure of Rebellus Terminus on the God's Wall to do so. We already have sufficient insults to the Storm worshippers in the from of Erlandus and Orlanatum.

>
>> >You've confused between the wielder of the weapon and
>>>the weapon itself again. Orlanth appears as the Thunderer,
>>>Lanatum and Rebellus Terminus. Humakt appears as
>>>the weapon Terminatus.
>
>>See above comment. Also remember that even Humakti make a
>>distinction between the power of Death and Humakt (even if at other
>>times they do not).
>
>Which doesn't stop the Dara Happans or anybody else ascribing
>the first murder to Humakt.

So the passage which constitutes your main evidence does not "rule out" your view ? Isn't it meant to provide support for your view ?

>
>>And the second account seems to me to have been
>>influenced by Orlanthi mythology - compare it with the version in
>>"The Other".
>
>The influence with Heortling mythology came much later as
>p87 of the GRAY points out.

p87 clearly indicates that the process of integrating the two mythologies had already begun.

> Since the myth of the Other
>also mentions Vinakotal and Lanatum and the myth of
>Yelm's Disintegration doesn't, I fail to see how you
>can say the second myth was influenced by the Orlanthi
>with the resulting implication that the first wasn't.

I didn't say that it was not influenced at all but the influence does appear to be less (e.g. the second account only features the Thunderer and - in a secondary role - the bat while the first clearly does include other enemy deities such as Kargzant among the rebels)
>
>>So where does Terinatus appear as the Dara Happan
>>God of death ?
>
>In the myths of the murder of Murharzarm. That is the
>first time death appears and it is mythically significant
>in that it results in the destruction of the Empire.

Yet it does not use the name Humakt, nor identify Terminatus as a God. Only as a weapon - just as in the Heortling story Orlanth uses the power of Death while it was not in Humakt's possession.

-- 
--
"The T'ang emperors were strong believers in the pills of
immortality.  More emperors died of poisoning from ingesting minerals
in the T'ang than in any other dynasty" - Eva Wong _The Shambhala
Guide to Taoism_

Paul K.


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End of Glorantha Digest, Vol 11, Issue 97
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