>But on to the topic:
> Is the idea still that the magic systems are ranged from primitive to
> sophisticated, and that the ultimate powerlevels of the magicians are
> connected to this?
I think this is flawed. RQ required an upgrade in power level to represent character advancement. It was unelegant. HQ IMO better simulates Gloranthan reality in that it is the characters advancement down his chosen path that defines his power level. Thus Bog Spirit-Eater who has a best magical ability at 1W3 is way better than Iccius the wizard adept who has his best magical ability at 10W.
> In the RQ era there was some speculation (and evidense of this), and
> reading the HQ books, I see shades of the same.
Book and Page number?
> Animism gives quick access to some useful power, but the power level is
> capped pretty soon. I started thinking about this since broo and scoprion
> men seem to be compleatly animistic these days, and this makes their magic
> pretty weak. The Dark Gods just aren't that scary anymore.
Eh?A concentrated practitioner is scary!! Just look at Grazelander warriors. Mounted, first class weapon skills and, as practitioners can release spirits from fetishes for big bonuses. In our group when we came up against Char Un we were suitably scared.
> (What's he talking about?)
> What I mean is that the spirits awailable from most practises seem to have
> a power range around 10 - 10w1. There's not much the animist can do about
> that, is there? 10w is quite useful, but it's not really earth-shattering
> heroic magic, now is it.
If you look in more detail at the rules for animists, the practitioner can go hunting for more powerful spirits than are listed in the book. The book spirits are for guidance only for low to mid power animists IMO.
> Theism is pretty much the standard for most of our games. The feats can
> get very powerful, and Heroquesting is the order of the day.
True the feats are peculiarly powerful, but in a very, very narrow way. Which is great if you are a warrior (or Farmer) worshipping a wrrior (or farmer) deity. Also since reading Greg's article about concentration I am sure that the characters in our game do not really qualify to maintain their status, because we are constantly on the road in strange lands for quite a while now. However we play a more *arcade* or movie type game where it is convienient to dispense with the realities of being a Heortling. YGWV & MGF in action.
> Wizardry may not seem all that powerful when one looks at the rules, but
> by the history of Glorantha, it seems to be responsible for some of the
> most impressive magical phenomenon in history. The rules seem to stress
> the hierarchial nature of wizardly communities (most people don't really
> get individually-useful magic) and the long commitment needed to gain real
> power.
The reasons for this IMO are cultural. Sorcerers, IMO, are akin to folk of today and technology. Some schools of Wizardry are not constrained (much) by moral issues, culture, society. Experimentation and science is their religion with as potentially devastating consequences as modern scientists. They are the Gloranthan Openhiemers IMO. Thus the potetnial for catastrophe is more aparent.
> And at the far end we seem to have mysticism. So esoteric and specialized
> that most people even in the lands of the mystics don't really have
> anything to do with it. The mystic spends a _lot_ of time before learning
> any magic (three abilities to two masteries) and doesn't really gain much
> immediate power even then. But...
IMO mystics are to be used in games like Illuminates and Dragonewts. Although anyone could play one, I think no one could. And maybe at least half of that is that I wouldn't necessarily know if they had played it right!!
I use a mystic that I nicked from the Gwandor, Tothus Seven-Seventh. All i need to know about him is that he is in the 20W3 range in anything he does. He can phase through walls, fly and does not need weapons. Think the master in the second Kill Bill movie. A more mundane version would be Chin from Remo, Unarmed and Dangerous. But there, I reveal the bubblegum nature of my brain!!
> This is the place that gives us Sheng Seleris. Possibly the most
> individually powerful (once)mortal in the history of Glorantha.
Following on from Peter. I always saw him as a Shaman. But unusual in that he was a leader, not just the medicine man. Maybe thats where the mystic discipline comes in. Great name as well.
> So what do people think? Am I reading this right, and are the animists
> intentionally so weak.
Flawed supposition. See my view, above. YAMV though!
> It really seems like a proper hero (player
> character, that is. Small h) doesn't need to fear the magic of chaotics,
> or other primitives. Civilization is what brings power to magic.
Civilised? That is a subjective assesment. The Lunar College is not powerful because it is civilised - just because it is organised. Hence the Sartar Magical Union is a match for it IMO. Also the shakers have some awfully powerfull magic, and the primal Firewitch Cragspider has some similarly awsome magic. And thats just from the boardgame Dragon Pass (which I think now we have HQ is more easy to replicate than RQ.)
regards
Rob
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