(unknown charset) Re: Pigs and Maniria

From: (nil)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 00:42:41 -0500


>
> Great post Jeff - thanks a lot. A few minor comments:
>

Thanks! Just some clarifications - rememember, I=20 am writing from the point of view of modern (such=20 as it is) Wenelia and am of the opinion that the=20 ancient history and pre-history is not as=20 important as it is made out to be. This is=20 especially true in light of the devastation the=20 area suffered
in Darkness and at the Sinking (of Slontos).

>
> >From Shannon Appel's history of Kethaela (which appeared in Tradetalk),
> there appears to be have been a lot of permeation between the Entruli
> hsunchen and the Vingkotlings. If I recall, there were at least six
> tribes of Entruli (several of which were probably not hsunchen) - the
> Ramali, the Heerili, the Maniri, the Weneli, the Drorgalrites and the
> Vathmai. The Vingkotlings drove the Entruli out of Kethaela and into
> Slontos (although that story may be an oversimplification). Two tribes
> of the Entruli - the Drogalrites and the Vathmai - pledged themselves to
> the Vingkotlings. Presumably they can be considered Orlanthi, not
> hsunchen. The Drorgalrites became the Harandings and were defeated by
> the Vingkotlings at Arrowmound.
>

Yes, there were a fair number of beast folks in=20 the area. The Pralori, according to Greg were the=20 ones who held sway over the region - such as it=20 was - at the Dawn. But again, its ancient history=20 and has, sadly, as much bearing on modern thought=20 as the cultural influence of, say, the Devonians or the Silurii upon modern English culture.

>
> On the other hand, other sources have the Harandings as a clan of
> Orlanth and Esrola (Ketha) worshipping pig people whose nobles ride upon
> huge tuskers. The same sources describe the Ditaling clan as a very
> small animist clan worshipping Dital, a hunting spirit, at the Dawn.
> In the early Dawn Age, Pralori apparently conquered much of Wenelia.
> Wenelia was liberated by the Vathmai tribe (or whoever they later
> became) with aid from the World Council. Theyalan missionaries likely
> showed the other Entruli how to worship Orlanth and the Lifebringers.

Yes, the Vathmai tribe is mentioned in Trader=20

Princes as the founders of the first post-Dawn=20
kingom in the area.  However, most of what you=20
quote is pre-Darkness material and really does=20
not have as much influence on the modern era as=20 you think.

> >I will treat them as hsunchen until told otherwise.
>
> I don't think that the Harandings were hsunchen. However, I think other
> Entruli tribes probably were hsunchen at the Dawn and later abandoned
> their hsunchen ways for the Theyalan lifebringers.
>

I never said that the Harandings were hsunchen.=20 They, along with the Helerings and a few others,=20 some of the influences which created the=20 Wenelians.

As far as Trader Princes are concerned the=20 Harandings are, according to Sir Brian=20 Not-From-Here: ""A bunch of worthless hillmen who=20 are not worth the trouble it takes to rule them."

Entruli were not hsunchen either. However, I=20 agree they abandoned their beast worshipping ways=20 to become the modern Wenelians we know and love=20 today.

>
>

David D writes:

> Peter
>
> >cannot understand why Maniria has to be populated by seven
> >indistinguishable tribes of pig-worshippers.
>
> Pigs have large litters, and their worshippers seem to have a hard
> time getting along.
>

Just like pigs... (shuddering flashback to summers on grandad's farm)

>
> I don't think the seven tribes of pig-worshippers mentioned in the
> sources are necessarily indistinguishable, however. One major point
> is that some are animists and some theists.
>

Yes, the Entruli were, according to the emails=20 from Greg exchanged while writing Trader Princes,=20 only one of a large number of divine beast=20 worshippers (who were not hsunchen). Some became=20 Orlanthitized in the Storm Age, others during the=20 Dawn and Second Age. Some retain their various beast-cherishing faiths but most of the Wenelians=20 practice a mish-mash of "what works for us."

>
> >Tradetalk #11 describes the Wenelians as having the totems of Stag,
> >Otter, Lion, Badger, Boar, Fox, Bull, Wolf, Bear, Beaver, Stallion and
> >Hound. Hence to consider them yet another tribe of pig-lover is
> >wrongheaded.
>
> Nothing says that hsunchen (sorry, I'm using the generally accepted
> term and not your narrow version) have to have the same totem, nor
> that "evolved hsunchen" have to all worship the same deity.
>

Right. As far as I know, current Wenelians=20 worship a totem that is "theirs" - they often=20 then go to live with their own kind or form=20 bloodlines based on a totemic kinship. In many=20 other cases, they simply accept the totem's gifts=20 and get on with their lives.

Evolved Husnchen sounds like it should be some sort of Decipticon toy.

>
> They're pig-lovers because they are (or were) Entruli.
> --

That is my understand of it. Or maybe they were Mraloti. Or Harandings.

Oh! And Erenplose? I have no idea what's down=20 there either but we have some infornation that it=20 was there that Palangio got his Iron Vrok - an=20 apparently impossible concept.

Jeff

--
=46light to Peru - =A31000
Camping gear - =A3200
Native guide to take you into the mountains - =A350
Radiation detector to find mysteriously radioactive old tomb - =A3150
Sledgehammer to break down stone door - =A312.99
Awakening one of the Great Old Ones - priceless.

There are some things man was not meant to know. For everything else,
there's Mastercard.




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