Re: Chiefs' wives

From: Donald R. Oddy <donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:56:50 GMT


In message
<1272.217.85.26.80.1110982619.squirrel_at_webmail.toppoint.de> "Joerg Baumgartner" writes:
>Donald Oddy
>
>>>I wonder what the requirements on marriage planning and presiding
>>>over the loomhouse are. How much of the "first lady" jobs are
>>>implied in chieftainship? Is it the chieftain only, or does a
>>>husband-and-wife team compete for the post?
>
>> Is it even necessary for the wife of the chieftain to preside over
>> the loomhouse? It would seem to create extreme difficulties in
>> choosing the best candidates for either position which in turn
>> implies one or other position is symbolic rather than actual.
>
>Still the chief's wife will have considerable influence e.g. on the
>housecarls' mood (his hall is her domain, after all, and I doubt that
>ordinary clan chiefs have all "officers of the camp" at their beck).
>She will husband the chief's wealth.

Not necessarily, his mother could still be the senior Ernaldan in the bloodline. That'll be unusual though as I presume women usually step down from the role of managing the household when they join Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek.

>> It's not possible to predict at the time a couple are married how
>> well they are going to perform as leaders fifteen to twenty years
>> later. Then there are complications like one partner dies and
>> the other remarries. Would a chief's new bride be accepted as the
>> clan's senior Ernaldan?
>
>I doubt that chieftainship is for that long - unless you have a very
>heroic leader who doesn't get bored with the chores, I'd expect a greater
>turn-around as bloodline or stead alliances within the clan shift.

Doesn't have to be very long for an unexpected death either in childbirth or by accident. How common depends on mortality rates for adults in their thirties but it will happen. Even with 20th Century mortality rates about 1% of 30 year olds don't reach 40.

>> I suspect this is where the concept of sexual relationships in
>> rituals not being adultery comes from. The Chief and senior
>> Ernaldan have ritual obligations and those superceed the marriage
>> vows if they are not married to each other.
>
>In case of female chiefs, the chief and the senior Orlanthi?

Yes.

>>>If so, can a female candidate for chieftainship provide the warrior
>>>paraphernalia for her champion?
>
>> Isn't a lot of this stuff going to be property of the bloodline rather
>> than the individual. So who uses the items is less of an issue.
>
>I don't think so: the wapentake gives every individual on a stead who
>fulfills the requirement the right to participate in the decisions. The
>items to qualify as a political member of the clan may well be personal
>belongings.

Yes, but that's minimal equipment for fullfiling either the male or female role in society. When you reach two swords and horses you've reached a point where it's more than an individual can use personally.

>I don't quite expect most 16-year-old girls being the subject of haggling
>and match-making with other clans. My impression was that the Heortlings
>allow for both bride and groom to have undergone and finished something
>like an apprenticeship in their primary occupation - a bit like Tacitus on
>the Germanic tribesfolk.

Sixteen isn't early for most human societies, that's a modern idea. Even when I was at school there were still plenty of girls worried about being on the shelf at 19 or 20. I believe my grandmother was having a marriage arranged for her at 13 even though it would have been illegal. I would expect most Heortlings to be married between the ages of 15 and 20. If only to keep the number of unmarried mothers to a reasonable level.

>> However I bet there
>> are more than a few spinsters who were thought to be too important to
>> be allowed to marry out of clan. Fortunatly the flexible attitude to
>> sex and children will mean that doesn't seriously affect the clans
>> ability to reproduce.
>
>Unlike spinsters (usually regarded as somehow flawed so that they
>couldn't be married away),

Spinster actually just means any woman who has never been married. The implication of flawed if a women was still a spinster by a particular age turned it into an insult, which caused the word to be dropped from common use.

>these could be carl- or even thane-equivalent women of
>power, with strong alliances among the older clanwomen compared to their
>age-companion wives born in other clans. I'd expect some interesting
>inter-female dynamics in this situation...

Indeed.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/


------------------------------

Powered by hypermail