Mikko Rintasaari:
> Peter, you are using the fact that are _some_ examples in the HQ book of
> spirits greater than 10w to debunk my claim. I'm talking about the general
> power level of animists.
>
> Let's see:
>
> Dark Tradition:
> ---------------
> Possess with [madness] 10 to 10w
> Mob 9 to 5w
> See in Moonlight 6 to 5w
>
> Five Spirit Moons Practise:
> ---------------------------
> Sharp Edge 14 to 5w
> Induce Madness 15 to 10w
>
> Jakaleel:
> ---------
> Spirits of the Dead 13 to 1w2
>
> Denbitos:
> ---------
> Inferno Destroys magic 10 to 10w3
>
> ***
It always struck me as strange that Practices listed typical spirits and their power levels. Theist cults don't get Affinities and power levels, Sorcerers don't get whatever-the-hell-they-use and power levels.
>From my point of view, a Tradition or Practice will have access to certain
types of spirit at various different levels. Beginning heroes will be able to
get them at low power levels, powerful shamans will be able to get them at
high power levels. What is needed, perhaps, is a power ceiling so that we
know that Jakaleel has more powerful spirits available to her than a local
psiirt cult hero.
> The above are the _strongest_ spirits of the first spirit practises
> detailed in the HQ book. The majority of the spirits in these practises
> are capped to a much lower level. Denbitos Inferno... spirits stand out,
> but they are defensive in use, a good counter to the theists warmagic, but
> not something with which to blow said theist to kingdom come.
I always prefer a high-powered game, so I would throw those levels out of the window and allow powerful shamans to summon well-hard spirits. (I know that not only shamans can summon spirits, but rather than dealing with shamans, practitioners and so on, shamans is an easier term to use)
> I'm sorry Peter, but I don't think you've disproved my point at all.
> Rather you are sticking to semantics, and avoiding my whole point.
But, I thought that's what Mr Metcalfe does ...
> But let's take a specific case then. Jardan teh Warrior practise is a good
> example. With spirits ranging from the defensive Resist Fear 16 to 10w and
> offensive like Flaming Arrow 11 to 9w and Glaring Lance 10 to 5w.
>
> Obviously the Jardan the Warrior animist can be a good match for theist
> starting heroes, and even to some more experiensed ones. But what does he
> do when the theists move on to 2w power levels?
He summons more powerful spirits than the examples given. Thinking back to the dark days of RuneQuest, when everything was bad, there were tables showing the POW of spirits that could be summoned, most spirits were of the 3D6 - 4D6+6 POW range, but there were some that were considerbaly higher at the very top end of the table (Deity at 100, I seem to recall). Now, I know that RQ rules do not relate particularly well to HeroQuest rules, but the principle has been well-established that there are far more powerful beasties out there than would normally be the case.
You might want to peg some of the top end spirits, if that suited your campaign, but bear in miond that people like Sheng Seleris could bind and summon demons and minor deities. Do you think the nasties he released against the Empire were 10W spirits? I think not. Horga the Hot was a spirit that blew a river dry. A shaman ambushed Humakt in the beginnings of the Lunar Empire and wounded him, stoppoing himm long enough for various things to happen. Did he do this with 10W spirits? No, of course not.
Hero Quest is scaleable at its very nature. There are normally bigger versions of things all the way up to deity level.
> > A good technique in conducting "civilized" conversations
> > is to actually listen to what other people are saying and
> > responding constructively.
Am I on the wrong list? (Was that really Mr Metcalfe quoted? I won't comment further except to pick myself off the floor)
> I can't remember what else I was thinking about, but since primitive
> people seem to all be animistic (which is all right, of course), and
> animism seems a bit lacking in power... well, it doesn't seem like a
> recipy that leads to all that scary broo, for instance.
In Glorantha, primitives do not lack power, particularly. A powerful shaman is a match for the mightiest of gods. Look at the top-most level of some of the Spirit Traditions and Practices - Dehor, Waha, Subere, YuKargzant and so on. Each the match of many of the deities around.
> Hmm... are there quidelines somewhere to how powerful the chaos features
> (HQ p.208) are supposed to be? At least they aren't caused by chaos
> spirits (like I think it was in HW) anymore.
Once again, a chaos feature is as powerful as you want. One broo may have Basilisk Glance 17, another may have Basilisk Glance 10W4. Treat the chaos features as descriptive and then assign power levels afterwards.
See Ya
Simon
PS Sorry to keep mentioning Peter (Knowledgable 10W4, Argumentative 15W4) Metcalfe above, but I am sure he won't feel too hurt, even though he seems a sensitive, thin-skinned sort of chap :-)
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