> I am not really talking about Prax specifically but as you use it in
> your very clear and well considered argument I will stick with the theame.
> This we may have to differ on, my perception of animism has death as a
> fundamental driver of mythology and informs all other concepts, I am
> wary of using the words duality or dualism as this is a misplaced
> concept and implies good v evil or at least opposition which is not gong
> to help me explain myself.
Animism has death as a major part of it as it can contact and deal with the spirits of the dead. However, there are many other parts of animism that are equally or more important. Having death as the driving force does skew any ideas towards undead=bad, which is not necessarily true.
> This new way of life involves Waha dividing the people into two and
> defining who can be eaten and who can eat. It is analogous to the hunter
> god defining who is the hunter and who is the hunted.
>
> I argue that Waha is drawing on an older tradition supplanted by the war
> like Storm Bull, filling the remainder of the missing hole in the
> jigsaw. He forms a compromise of life and death for survival. I suggest
> that the main "dual" concept at work here is life and death and that all
> other shamanistic concepts rely on this point, the fact that the
> religion has changed is a reaction to the change in the way of life.
Waha also helped divide the living from the dead, especially in Prax, I think. Was that Daka Fal, though?
> > But we have no stories about Waha defeating the
> > zombies. In fact, he has no magic to lay ghosts to
> > rest; he relies on Daka Fal for that and Daka Fal is
> > ancestor worship.
>
> You are obsessed with zombies ;-)
> On a serious note their are no doubt stories about the abomination of
> holding on to loved ones more than is appropriate, creating ghosts and
> other such monstrocities, maybe even reanimated corpses as in the
> monkey's paw and other such tales. (Undead in stories are rarely
> zombies. In the real world zombie myths are quite obscure).
> In Prax the undead are the ghosts that wander the wastes lost on route
> to Daka Fal's hall because of a failure of the living , wraiths that
> haunt a society that refuses to acknowlege the atrocity of their death,
> vampire like shades of dead relatives who were not allowed to rest or
> depart and must survive by consuming life, over zealos ancestors who
> will not depart from the living once contacted because they have an
> unfulfilled mission, succubus like ex-lovers who I cant elaborate on
> without spoiling my game for lurker players.
Yes, all these are found in animist Prax. There are also things like Balls of Tails, which Praxians find utterly abominable and would treat more harshly than other forms of undead.
> > In fact, the only Praxian group I can think of that
> > has reference to undead are the Ghost Darters, and
> > they are a very confused bunch.
>
> I think most of Prax will be confused on the whole life/death thing.
> It has been obscured and moved from the centre of their myth. I see this
> as not opposing the more established view of Prax, just enriching the
> back story.
No, most Praxians are very clear on the life/death thing. There are things that are alive, things that are dead and things that are in-between and all have their place in Prax.
Praxians have a very utilitarian point of view about many things. They are fanatically opposed to Chaos but think nothing of hiring broos as mercenaries (OK, thinking nothing is perhaps an overstatement, they prefer that broos get killed rather than their own people and only use them in dire circumstances). They don't particularly like undead in general, but they know that undead have their uses, especially in keeping outsiders from special places. Praxians do not have problems with undead under their control, but have major problems with undead controlled by their enemies or rivals.
I can see Praxian Shamans summoning and binding ghosts without a second thought, but they also free ghosts from their own clan or in clan areas as they are evils bound by someone else.
Most cultures are uneasy about undead as they are the dead re-animated and, normally, the dead should stay dead. However, there are some cultures for which that does not apply. Some of these cultures are animist.
Elves absolutely hate undead and probably treat them as a number one enemy.
Trolls, however, have no problems with undead. When a troll dies, his/her spirit goes off to Wonderhome and the body is treated as food or nothing special. They have no problems with animating the corpse as a guardian in a temple or clan village. Troll ancestors can come and help their clan by being bound as ghosts or whatever, but that stops them from being reborn so it is seen as a major sacrifice. Trolls often bind the spirits of their enemies as guardians to attack those who pass nearby. This is a good use of sacrificed enemies. Trolls don't care for Vampires as they are Chaotic, but they can bind ghouls, wraiths and ghosts, as these come under Subere's power.
I think that general comments such as "Animists Hate Undead" are too broad in scope.
Simon
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