If the girl follows the recommended choices, it isn't dangerous unless something goes badly wrong. I reckon it's seriously scarey though, she's trusting Ernalda with everything even when the menfolk let her down.
>> 1. The warriors are leaving to fight the enemy, a favourite relative
>> is going, what gift do you give him?
>> i) A cloak to keep him warm.
>> ii) A firepot to help him fend off the dark.
>> iii) A song to uplift his spirits.
>> iv) Food for the journey.
>> v) Herbs and bandages in case he is injured.
>> vi) A vision of the future.
>> vii) A symbol of your belief in his ability to protect you.
>> viii) Nothing, for you feel you cannot help him.
>
>I like the idea here, but if we are talking bangs (which seems to me the
>right way to do this) then these all need to be significant. What does
>each choice mean? I presume the girls are told to make "a gift to give
>to the men" before hand? Or perhaps they make all these things during
>the months before, not knowing why, and then are told to bring them?
>Once on the other side they choose?
They are indicators of which subcult the girl is likely to take. I see all girls having at least some experience with the first five before initiation. As we're on the Hero Plane I'd regard the ability as the particular item. Alternatively they could be told to bring their best work.
>More importantly, each choice should have some consequence. If the whole
>Ernalda quest is an inevitable slide into sleeping in front of
>overwhelming chaos it strikes me that every choice should involve some
>small victory and a further defeat. In other words, when the men come
>back, your choice of gift becomes significant. You helped them overcome
>some aspect of the danger, but failed to protect them from another,
>perhaps. (Or, that could depend entirely on your success, the quality of
>the gift, what have you.)
I'm vaguely thinking that providing something of poor quality (contest failure) results in some harm to the man. Ernalda doesn't expect everyone to be good at everything but failure has its consequences.
>But in general I think there aren't enough choices in your multiple
>choice stations below (but then you are just showing an outline, so
>that's fine). I really think the idea of this story is that every time
>you choose, you win a small victory in the face of a larger defeat. So
>what you choose to save/protect/etc is revelatory.
There probably should be more, and I expect players will find some more. I'm just trying to give the narrator enough to handle what gets thrown at them.
>> 2. The warriors are gone but you know the enemy are all around, in
>> what order do you hide the following?
>> i) The grain stores.
>> ii) The children.
>> iii) The livestock.
>> iv) Precious objects such as gold and jewelry.
>> v) Yourself.
>
>
>> 3. Darkness creatures are attacking but the menfolk haven't returned,
>> what do you do?
>
>> Girls are taught that they should make the first choice, the others
>> carry a risk of injury or even death.
>
>Which means what in this context? If a girl dies on the initiation
>quest, is she dead? Did she fail? I absolutely think it needs to be in
>there as there is a whole thing of "how much do you risk before you
>sleep" aspect. (Just as the boys have the Devil's face and void and such
>they can risk beyond the "normal" bounds of the rite.) But what is the
>risk?
Serious injury is certainly possible which carries back to the material world. I think death is more a possibility mentioned to discourage those choices.
>> Whatever your choice the menfolk
>> arrive in time to drive off the enemy,
>
>Why? Shouldn't this depend on your gift from station one perhaps? (I'm
>going with the idea in another post that a HQ often doesn't follow the
>expected stations the way you would think.)
Because the individual girl's actions haven't enough influence, the clan elders make sure this happens. It's certainly a point at which any enemy could disrupt the quest.
>> usually one item is seized by
>> the enemy. The menfolk recover it but the item lost will influence the
>> initiates life.
>
>Absolutely, although I think a better way of putting it is that what you
>chose to save will influence your life. I don't suppose that is too much
>of a distinction, but still. Maybe it depends on how much time you have
>in that other station, both matter. What you insisted on saving, and
>what you chose to abandon. (And I think you have no choice but to
>abandon something.)
>
>> 4. The warriors apologise for leaving you undefended and promise it
>> won't happen again. Do you
>> i) Accept the apology and promise.
>> ii) Insist it won't happen again or they won't be welcome back.
>> iii) If you took up a spear, refuse the apology and claim you
>> can protect the stead without their help.
>>
>> Either of the first two are acceptable responses, the third claim is
>> over the top and commits you to fighting next time.
>
>I don't think I'd make this a station, although rote responses make
>sense in myths. I'd have to find a way to make this a real bang. It
>seems nothing is at stake here, and therefore it doesn't need to be
>here.
It defines the woman's personality, more a choice for the player than the character. Probably more alternatives would help here, it should definitely create a personality trait on the character sheet.
>> 5. The warriors again leave but this time Elmal remains, he is
>> patronising to any women who fought last time. Do you
>> i) Flatter and be especially nice to him so that he'll make
>> sure you're safe.
>> ii) Ignore his attitude, he's not doing it to you.
>> iii) Ignore his attitude, responding would be beneath you.
>> iv) Answer him back, you're as good as he is any day.
>>
>> The last choice will commit you to fighting next time. All the others
>> are reasonable although iii is slightly preferred.
>
>This strikes me as more important as a station. With the caveat that
>each of these has to have a consequence. Flattering him means he saves
>you in preference to someone else, and something else is lost or someone
>else dies because of it. Ignoring his attitude should have some
>consequence as well. (I see little functional difference between 2 and
>3.) Answering him back commits you to fighting, sure.
Again it's character and relationships with the clan Elmali rather than direct consequence in the HQ.
>> 6. Chaos attacks but the menfolk haven't returned, do you
>> i) Hide
>> ii) Assist Elmal as best you can with healing, bringing weapons, etc.
>> iii) Fight alongside Elmal
>>
>> i is the expected response, ii is an indication of Enferalda.
>
>I'd make it harder. i) should be hide, as in hide everything that's
>left. In a way, you still have the problem you had before. What do you
>choose to save? Do you double the efforts to hide what went before? Do
>you hide the other non-combatants along with yourself? Do you assist
>Elmal with healing or fighting? Again, every choice should give you a
>minor victory in the thing you chose and a major defeat in what you
>chose to not do.
I didn't want to repeat stuff, there is already quite a bit to get through.
>> 7. No matter what you do chaos overuns the stead, do you
>> i) Accept Ernalda's embrace, trusting her as you fall asleep.
>> ii) Fight until you are beaten unconscious.
>> iii) Take up the copper axe nearby which gives you a lust for
>> the fight and you ignore injury to keep going.
>>
>> i is the expected response, don't suffer needlessly. ii is the Vingan
>> response, this is one of the defeats Elmal taunts Vinga about, she
>> knows that it wasn't a real defeat as she survived. iii Babeester or
>> Maran Gor, initiates are warned that this choice means sacrificing a
>> normal life but at times some find it attractive.
>
>That's one thing. This might be the "accepted" place to sleep, but I
>would think you probably need to make the offer at all the other
>stations.
Sleep doesn't really make sense at most of the others and I'm reluctant to make it an option too early.
>> 8. The warriors return to a devastated stead and drive off the
>> attackers. A wind lord takes the role of Orlanth to rewaken the
>> women -
>
>Absolutely have to disagree here. Wind Lords are incredibly rare, I
>can't see it being necessary to awaken the women. I'd leave it to
>someone in the Orlanth role for the rite.
Possibly, although they're usually wanderers. I think this is the one point were the clan gets the best person possible as if they fail the clan has several daughters lost on the hero plane. I envisage that although there are several girls doing the same things at the same time they can't actually see each other and what choices they're making. Some further thoughts are that this is one of the ways the Lunars convert clans - they find an alternative husband protector and prevent an Orlanthi taking the part.
>Overall I think it's a great sketch of the idea. Damn fine work. Mind
>you, I think the Ernalda sleeps story is a really harsh one to use as a
>women's initation rite, though. Very, very dark. But if it is, then it
>has to be one about making small victories in face of worse defeats,
>with the question of "when do you give up and sleep" always there. And
>I'm not sure it should be "give up and sleep". I almost think sleep
>should have some victorious connotations in some instances.
>
>A question for everyone, maybe I missed it, but is "Ernalda Sleeps" the
>correct and obvious option for the myth involved here? Surely there are
>some other Ernaldan myths that make sense as options here? (I do think
>we are limited to Ernalda, and don't get to do some mortal woman's tale,
>correct? Or have I missed that as well?)
I picked it to match the men's quest which involves going off and fighting. Yes it's dark although the ending is normally a great party to celebrate Ernalda's return to life. But that explains why Heortling women tend to be cold bloodied about the important things - marriage, children, crops etc.
-- Donald Oddy http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/ ------------------------------
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