Careful here with the blanket statements. It is perfectly possible for a patriot to pretend to spy for the opposite side and feed it out-of-date info, and to uphold a useful information channel.
I can certainly see someone in the Iron Ring having close personal connections with some Lunar _faction_ and feeding them some information.
IIRC Gringle sort of went this double agent path after 1613 - he was rumored to have been tasked with collecting (or maybe just assessing) the tax from Sartar after 1613. No idea who for, but given the sudden change in Lunar command, possibly for Fazzur or someone in his circle.
Jane:
>>Let me think about that one, after all, every time the Lunars have
>>beaten the Sartarites in the last 20 years or so, she's been
>>involved - then again, maybe not :)
Jeff:
> Ah, but Kallyr and Minaryth are responsible for the Dragonrise,
> ultimately one of the biggest reversals the Lunars have ever had.
You might think way too provincial. For the Provincial Lunars - be they the Sylilan Satraps or the Tarshite Royal House - this reversal meant a weakening of the Heartlands but an opportunity to go to the top.
> At the
> Dragonrise(1625), many of the most senior Lunar officials are devoured by
> the dragons (although King Moirades and Pharandros were probably not
> there).
Either because Tatius didn't want them present at his triumph (although that would be untypical - IMO Tatius has all the makings of a gloater), or because they were involved.
Remember the Good Empire unconclusive discussion? An inspired (non-Lunars would say mad) Tarshite scheme might aim at getting rid of the Assiday influence. I still think that some of the rebels had inside contacts with the attendant Lunars to get to their positions...
> The impact of the Dragonrise on the Lunars should not be understated -
> most of the key figures of the Lunar Provinces (and even many key
> figures in the Heartlands) were devoured by the dragon and lost to
> the Goddess and the Empire.
In fact, all those figures who stood between the heirs of Phargentes and his offices... A Phargantite involvement would make this a very big hit on the Dart Competition scale (comparable to Harrek slaying Ignifer). A once-in-a-Wane success...
> Generals, priests, nobles, magicians, heroes and would-be heroes -
> all lost.
All of them friendly to Tatius.
> This is a worse disaster for the Lunars than was the Night of
> Horrors - and, unfortunately, it is inflicted solely on the Lunar
> leadership (the Night of Horrors decimated the Lunars but it also
> destroyed the Pentans who took centuries to recover).
It is a select group of the Lunar leadership (or probably a select group which is absent) at the dragonrise. Sure, a certain amount of Lunar forces are sacrificed as well - veteran forces controlled by Tatius and his cronies, mostly, there as a reward while the troublemakers (like e.g. the majority of the Tarshite forces under Tatius' command) get posted to unpleasant and faraway posts.
Once again, Fazzur is astonishingly ready to respond to the uprising...
RE: Kallyr the Double Agent
Jane:
> Tongue very much in cheek for this, it's OK. I don't believe a word of it,
> but it's fun to play with.
> Me:
>> *>Let me think about that one, after all, every time the
>> Lunars have beaten
>> >the Sartarites in the last 20 years or so, she's been involved
>
> Jeff:
>> Ah, but Kallyr and Minaryth are responsible for the
>> Dragonrise, ultimately
>> one of the biggest reversals the Lunars have ever had. At the
>> Dragonrise(1625), many of the most senior Lunar officials are
>> devoured by
>> the dragons (although King Moirades and Pharandros were
>> probably not there).
> Aha! So which Lunar political grouping sponsored the Dragonrise so as to
> destroy their enemies?
> Weren't we looking for a Secret Plan for Moirades a while back?
Indeedy.
>> The impact of the Dragonrise on the Lunars should not be
>> understated - most
>> of the key figures of the Lunar Provinces (and even many key
>> figures in the Heartlands) were devoured by the dragon
> So who was carefully not there?
> To what extent are the Blue Moon involved? Or, come to think of it, the
> White Moon?
All good questions.
> Do either Kallyr or Minaryth realise that the nice friendly people who're
> helping them are actually using them as pawns in Lunar politics? And -
> yes, yet more complication! Have they both been "hired" by the same lot?
> Minaryth is one of those eaten by the dragon, remember!
Only his boots.
> Let's see, Fazzur wasn't there. He shows up later with an army, and
> promptly
> leaves at just the right time to be sure Kallyr's Sartarite army wins.
> Very
> handy. Though of course his participation in the events of 1613 doesn't
> really suggest that he and Kallyr were on the same side, secretly or
> otherwise. Euglyptus, maybe... But he's same political party as Tatius.
Fazzur's son calls in the Argraths to deal with Moirades, too...
> No, if she's a double, she changed handlers, and Lunar political sides,
> between 1613 and 1625. Probably Fazzur's work, in one of his periods of
> exile/sulking. "Wideread" - might get on with Minaryth?
How did Min get the marching order for the battle of Minaryth's Flood (aka Hill of Orlanth Victorious) in 1613?
> Then again, maybe this is a pre-coffee hallucination.
I don't drink coffee, but I share the ideas...
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