Re : Combats spirituels

Auteur: babeldemeter3 <babeldemeter3_at_...>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 14:28:10 -0000

 > j'aimerai savoir comment vous gérez les combats spirituels avec
> HQ. Avez-vous des détails particuliers à communiquer?

Je n'ai jamais eu à en gérer dans mes parties de HW et je n'ai pas encore eu le temps d'y réfléchir réellement, néanmoins voici quelques pistes de réflexion glanées sur les heroquestlists en VO (je ne partage pas forcément l'opinion des participants, mais cela fait une base de discussion) :

> > > Am I right in thinking the spirit combat ability is one that
> > > everybody can reasonably be expect to have and therefore
> > > default to 6?
> >
> > No, you can't attack, but defend at the standard resistance of
> > 14, if you haven't got a better ability (your Narrator may allow
> > stuff like 'Strong Willed 5W' at a decent Improv. Penalty). So on
> > your actions, you can't attack, and would do well to start
> > looking for a way to improve your defences; on it's attack, you
> > can defend, and it can lose, dropping AP. Anyone disagree?

Correct. If you win a combat *without* having the Spirit combat ability, you cannot force the spirit into a fetch, make it serve you, or integrate it. All you have done is prevented it from affecting you, *this time*. Strong Willed (and similar abilities) would work at full effect (Spirit combat is a contest of wills).

You use something appropriate like Brave. The Sprit Combat skill is only used to Initiate challenges.

Now, what I do is allow the heroes to do unrelated actions that will at least help them (if thye are really up the creek) or I allow them to continue the contest using their most appropriate skill.

AFAIC, Spirit Combat is used for taking the fight to the spirit. If the spirit disengages from the combat and you don't have the Spirit Combat skill, it gets away to lick its wounds or inflict itself on another victim.

> If a fear spirit attacks a non-shaman character, what skills can he
> use to defend and attack the spirit?
> Can he use his highest magic ability? Or does he have to use a
> skill like Strong Willed?
> If yes to the latter, if he doesn't have any such skill, is his
> resistance the default 14 or skill default 6, and does that only
> account for defending or defending and attacking?

As already noted, he uses his best, most appropriate skill. If his best magical skill is something like "Defend against Spirits" then that is the one to use. If it is an affinity for Earthworms, then it probably isn't (unless your player can come up with a real doozy of an explanation!)

Note that if he defeats the Fear Spirit in this combat, it will just go away unless he has the Spirit Combat ability (or similar). With the Spirit Combat ability, he can get an immediate 1-use task out of the spirit (this could include "go bug that guy over there" or possibly even "never bother me again" if he got a high enough victory). If he just happened to have an appropriate empty fetish lying around, he could even bind the spirit (though happening to have a convenient empty fetish lying around is a low probablility event).

> When a possessing spirit/ghost attacks a hero and it is trying to do
> its best to possess him, what is the relevant ability used by the
> hero to resist, provided he doesn't know spirit combat?

That would depend on the hero, wouldn't it? Everyone has different abilities.

Most people have some ability that could be used, even if it's a relationship to their clan (which would probably get a modifier, but would represent their attachment to their ancestral spirits [or daimones if you prefer the scientific term]).

David Dunham <mailto:dunham_at_...>

> I was referring to a complete defeat required for spirit
> possession rather than a general rule about permanent
> consequences...
> The section on Spirit Combat mentions that Possesion is possible,
> but neatly sidesteps any actual rules....


> So if a spirit completely defeats you, you are (or can be)
> posessed - what if it only gets a marginal victory. If it's a
> disease spirit, you might exhibit a few mild symptomns as aopposed
> to becoming a carrier, and suffering the full blown disease, but
> what if it's a ghost, or other sort of spirit? What effects
> does/could it have for the different levels of success it might
> achieve.

That's what I meant with my question. Having a scenario full of Thanatari haunts on schedule, I will be confronted with the issue quite repeatedly (being on the possessing ghost/narrating side). I want to make the mad head ghosts scary, but not to run a full "exorcist: the director's cut" scenario after that.

I can fudge the critical "might vs freewill" rolls, but I was looking for something more elegant.

I say it's similar to any other contest.

Marginal: "no lasting side effects." The ghost could possess you long enough to make a speech, then depart.

Minor: "penalties that last for a day or so." The ghost could possess you for a day or so, but would depart before you could find a shaman.

Major: "penalties that last for a season or so." You are possessed, essentially until some aid can be found.

Complete: "a permanent effect." Uh-oh. (This is actually how I gained a player character, back in RQ days -- I ended up playing the ghost.) Presumably it's still possible to get rid of the ghost, but a lot more difficult.

AFAIK in HW otherworld creatures need some sort of 'vessel' in the mundane world. For a ghost this is the area or object that they haunt. IIRC a ghosts objective is to possess those entering its area/handling its item, and use that possessed body to attack/communicate/obtain revenge or whatever.

A first step in your story is to figure out what the ghost wants and how it will use the body it possesses.

If it only intends to communicate then a marginal or minor victory might be enough. If it wants to attack (and it is a mad heade ghost so that is probably a yes) I would suggest that it needs a major victory (perhaps the ghost is only able to use its abilities at 50% here due to the rightful soul struggling for possession of the body) or complete defeat (no penalties the body is yours to control. Hulk smash!).

Resisting and Defeating the ghost are I think dependant different ablilities.

Frx, against a Mad Head Ghost you need to find the head and crush it will reciting LM's ritual. So I would go for Initiate/Devotee of LM ("I rip this tool"); Heortling Myths (-3) ("Now what was that poem in the story..."; Search(-5) (where's the head); Close Combat (-10) (smash everything!) for hero attacks.

Defence is less obvious but I would allow them to resist with the highest of 14 (its magic); Highest affinity (my soul is powerful alien creature); Initiate/Devotee of LM (Servant of my enemy I resist you); Worship Storm Pantheon (Orlanth! Help Me!).

Everyone in Glorantha can resist spirits to some degree. No special 'resist possession' skill is needed.

As to the ghosts in question - they are (mostly) not spirits in the magical sense,

I'd suggest that 'strong willed' would work as a resistance for spirit possession, as would anything else that keeps a character in control of their actions ('self-possessed' would be ideal, of course). My understanding is that it can be anything at all, that would keep you in charge rather than the spirit. With penalties for too far-fetched an improvisation, of course.

Depending on the situation, and the spirit in question, the PCs in my campaign would use a variety of skills. For example 'Stubborn' - Sorcha doesn't want to do what the spirit wants; 'Exert Authority' - Asra is in charge here, thank you, not some little spirit; Ingolf has 'Seen Many Winters' and so knows what to so in such cases. Of course, any of them could call on their gods to help them against the spirits, as mentioned on p. 99. I think that's what Sahziel, the last PC, would need to do.

The example on p.99 you mention is a different case than possession, though. It is about a spirit using it's Brain Fever 5w as an attack (or, perhaps more likely, an animist using his spirit for an attack), which is resisted as any other magical effect. Indeed, given the magical nature of Glorantha, one could suggest that this is the source of most diseases - spiritual attacks leading to illness.

Il y a probablement d'autres discussions sur le sujet, mais cela fait déjà pas mal de lecture et cela brosse quelques premières pistes de rélexion.

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