Re: Re : Combats spirituels

Auteur: Fabrice Merienne <fabrice.merienne_at_...>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 19:59:27 +0100

Merci beaucoup, il y a là de quoi faire. Il se trouve que tout risque bien de me servir la semaine prochaine...

Le 12/11/2012 15:28, babeldemeter3 a écrit :
> > j'aimerai savoir comment vous gérez les combats spirituels avec
> > HQ. Avez-vous des détails particuliers à communiquer?
> Je n'ai jamais eu à en gérer dans mes parties de HW et je n'ai pas
> encore eu le temps d'y réfléchir réellement, néanmoins voici quelques
> pistes de réflexion glanées sur les heroquestlists en VO (je ne
> partage pas forcément l'opinion des participants, mais cela fait une
> base de discussion) :
> > > > Am I right in thinking the spirit combat ability is one that
> > > > everybody can reasonably be expect to have and therefore
> > > > default to 6?
> > >
> > > No, you can't attack, but defend at the standard resistance of
> > > 14, if you haven't got a better ability (your Narrator may allow
> > > stuff like 'Strong Willed 5W' at a decent Improv. Penalty). So on
> > > your actions, you can't attack, and would do well to start
> > > looking for a way to improve your defences; on it's attack, you
> > > can defend, and it can lose, dropping AP. Anyone disagree?
> Correct. If you win a combat *without* having the Spirit combat
> ability, you cannot force the spirit into a fetch, make it serve you,
> or integrate it.
> All you have done is prevented it from affecting you, *this time*.
> Strong Willed (and similar abilities) would work at full effect
> (Spirit combat is a contest of wills).
> _____________________________________
> You use something appropriate like Brave. The Sprit Combat skill is
> only used to Initiate challenges.
> Now, what I do is allow the heroes to do unrelated actions that will
> at least help them (if thye are really up the creek) or I allow them
> to continue the contest using their most appropriate skill.
> AFAIC, Spirit Combat is used for taking the fight to the spirit. If
> the spirit disengages from the combat and you don't have the Spirit
> Combat skill, it gets away to lick its wounds or inflict itself on
> another victim.
> ______________________________________
> > If a fear spirit attacks a non-shaman character, what skills can he
> > use to defend and attack the spirit?
> > Can he use his highest magic ability? Or does he have to use a
> > skill like Strong Willed?
> > If yes to the latter, if he doesn't have any such skill, is his
> > resistance the default 14 or skill default 6, and does that only
> > account for defending or defending and attacking?
> As already noted, he uses his best, most appropriate skill. If his
> best magical skill is something like "Defend against Spirits" then
> that is the one to use. If it is an affinity for Earthworms, then it
> probably isn't (unless your player can come up with a real doozy of an
> explanation!)
> Note that if he defeats the Fear Spirit in this combat, it will just
> go away unless he has the Spirit Combat ability (or similar). With the
> Spirit Combat ability, he can get an immediate 1-use task out of the
> spirit (this could include "go bug that guy over there" or possibly
> even "never bother me again" if he got a high enough victory). If he
> just happened to have an appropriate empty fetish lying around, he
> could even bind the spirit (though happening to have a convenient
> empty fetish lying around is a low probablility event).
> ___________________________________
> > When a possessing spirit/ghost attacks a hero and it is trying to do
> > its best to possess him, what is the relevant ability used by the
> > hero to resist, provided he doesn't know spirit combat?
> That would depend on the hero, wouldn't it? Everyone has different
> abilities.
> Most people have some ability that could be used, even if it's a
> relationship to their clan (which would probably get a modifier, but
> would represent their attachment to their ancestral spirits [or
> daimones if you prefer the scientific term]).
> David Dunham <mailto:dunham_at_...>
> _____________________________________
> > I was referring to a complete defeat required for spirit
> > possession rather than a general rule about permanent
> > consequences...
> > The section on Spirit Combat mentions that Possesion is possible,
> > but neatly sidesteps any actual rules....
> >
> > So if a spirit completely defeats you, you are (or can be)
> > posessed - what if it only gets a marginal victory. If it's a
> > disease spirit, you might exhibit a few mild symptomns as aopposed
> > to becoming a carrier, and suffering the full blown disease, but
> > what if it's a ghost, or other sort of spirit? What effects
> > does/could it have for the different levels of success it might
> > achieve.
> That's what I meant with my question. Having a scenario full of
> Thanatari haunts on schedule, I will be confronted with the issue
> quite repeatedly (being on the possessing ghost/narrating side). I
> want to make the mad head ghosts scary, but not to run a
> full "exorcist: the director's cut" scenario after that.
> I can fudge the critical "might vs freewill" rolls, but I was looking
> for something more elegant.
> ___________________________________
> I say it's similar to any other contest.
> Marginal: "no lasting side effects." The ghost could possess you long
> enough to make a speech, then depart.
> Minor: "penalties that last for a day or so." The ghost could possess
> you for a day or so, but would depart before you could find a shaman.
> Major: "penalties that last for a season or so." You are possessed,
> essentially until some aid can be found.
> Complete: "a permanent effect." Uh-oh. (This is actually how I gained
> a player character, back in RQ days -- I ended up playing the ghost.)
> Presumably it's still possible to get rid of the ghost, but a lot
> more difficult.
> _____________________________________
> AFAIK in HW otherworld creatures need some sort of 'vessel' in the
> mundane world. For a ghost this is the area or object that they
> haunt. IIRC a ghosts objective is to possess those entering its
> area/handling its item, and use that possessed body to
> attack/communicate/obtain revenge or whatever.
> A first step in your story is to figure out what the ghost wants and
> how it will use the body it possesses.
> If it only intends to communicate then a marginal or minor victory
> might be enough. If it wants to attack (and it is a mad heade ghost
> so that is probably a yes) I would suggest that it needs a major
> victory (perhaps the ghost is only able to use its abilities at 50%
> here due to the rightful soul struggling for possession of the body)
> or complete defeat (no penalties the body is yours to control. Hulk
> smash!).
> Resisting and Defeating the ghost are I think dependant different
> ablilities.
> Frx, against a Mad Head Ghost you need to find the head and crush it
> will reciting LM's ritual. So I would go for Initiate/Devotee of LM
> ("I rip this tool"); Heortling Myths (-3) ("Now what was that poem in
> the story..."; Search(-5) (where's the head); Close Combat (-10)
> (smash everything!) for hero attacks.
> Defence is less obvious but I would allow them to resist with the
> highest of 14 (its magic); Highest affinity (my soul is powerful
> alien creature); Initiate/Devotee of LM (Servant of my enemy I resist
> you); Worship Storm Pantheon (Orlanth! Help Me!).
> ____________________________________
> Everyone in Glorantha can resist spirits to some degree. No special
> 'resist possession' skill is needed.
> As to the ghosts in question - they are (mostly) not spirits in the
> magical sense,
> I'd suggest that 'strong willed' would work as a resistance for spirit
> possession, as would anything else that keeps a character in control
> of their actions ('self-possessed' would be ideal, of course). My
> understanding is that it can be anything at all, that would keep you
> in charge rather than the spirit. With penalties for too far-fetched
> an improvisation, of course.
> Depending on the situation, and the spirit in question, the PCs in my
> campaign would use a variety of skills. For example 'Stubborn' -
> Sorcha doesn't want to do what the spirit wants; 'Exert Authority' -
> Asra is in charge here, thank you, not some little spirit; Ingolf has
> 'Seen Many Winters' and so knows what to so in such cases. Of course,
> any of them could call on their gods to help them against the spirits,
> as mentioned on p. 99.
> I think that's what Sahziel, the last PC, would need to do.
> The example on p.99 you mention is a different case than possession,
> though.
> It is about a spirit using it's Brain Fever 5w as an attack (or,
> perhaps more likely, an animist using his spirit for an attack), which
> is resisted as any other magical effect. Indeed, given the magical
> nature of Glorantha, one could suggest that this is the source of most
> diseases - spiritual attacks leading to illness.
> ____________________________________
> Il y a probablement d'autres discussions sur le sujet, mais cela fait
> déjà pas mal de lecture et cela brosse quelques premières pistes de
> rélexion.

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