Bell Digest v930205

Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 18:23:37 +0100
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Digest Subscriptions)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Feb 1993

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From: (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <>
Date: 4 Feb 93 17:01:35 GMT

>Finaly a question about the Glowline. Is Sun Dome County included in the Gl
>Glowline (1621 ST), I can find no reference that mentions this but I may be
>looking in the wrong place. If it isn't already within the Glowline then 
>what are the requirements for inclusion? 

Extending the Glowline is what the Temple of the Reaching Moon does.
When an area has been under lunar domination for long enough that it
is considered fairly stable politically, the Reaching Moon cult builds
temples there to connect the new area up with the existing Empire.
Once these are built and the appropriate rituals performed, the
Glowline extends to incorporate the new lands into the Empire.

Brandon Brylawski


From: (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <>
Date: 4 Feb 93 16:46:08 GMT

> From:
> Subject: THE BLOCK
> Truestone has the property of compelling those who touch it to cast all
> the rune magic they know into the stone, after which it becomes "set" and
> can no longer accept new magic.

I believe this is incorrect.  Truestone can *accept* Rune magic cast
into it, but does not *compel* a holder to cast Rune magic into it.

> If it's set, what and how many spells does it contain?

Only the highest of the Storm Bulls guarding it would know.  Wanna go
and ask them?-)

> From: (Ghost Dancer)
> Subject: Fatigue and the Glowline - Thoughts and questions
> If it isn't already within the Glowline then what are the requirements
> for inclusion?

A special ceremony must be performed by the priestesses of the
Conquering Moon (Hwarin Dalthippa?  Damn, memory is fading.)
Presumably this would take some time, and might draw an Orlanthi raid
in an attempt to disrupt the ceremony.  Undoing the ceremony might
take a HeroQuest.



From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
Subject: The Block and the Glowline
Message-ID: <199302041825.AA15805@sun.Panix.Com>
Date: 4 Feb 93 08:25:58 GMT

>If the Block is "blank" (contains
>no magic), how has it avoided becoming set? If it's set, what and
>how many spells does it contain?
>--Guy (Mulborth) Hoyle
I've always assumed that the Block was set when it was used, and now
contains all the Rune magic of the Devil!  (Just kidding.  Maybe.)
Ghost Dancer writes:
>Finaly a question about the Glowline. Is Sun Dome County included
>in the Gl Glowline (1621 ST), I can find no reference that
>mentions this but I may be looking in the wrong place. If it isn't
>already within the Glowline then  what are the requirements for
>inclusion? The reason I ask is that I am writting a scenario set
>in Morning in Sun Dome County and would like to put a bit of
>pressure on the party by having them wake up one morning to find
>the Red Moon in the sky, they would then of course want to find
>out why and possibly stop it. What I am looking for is something
>subtle such as a hidden Seven Mothers temple being established,
No part of Prax, including Sun Dome County, is within the Glowline.
If you look at _King of Sartar_, you'll realize that the Glowline is
still located in the north of Dragon Pass in 1621.
Also in _KOS_ is a description of the ceremony necessary to extend the
Glowline.  It seems to involve years of rituals performed by hundreds
of priests, so one hidden temple probably couldn't do it.  How about
if the "Red Moon" hanging in the sky is a sign from some other god
that the Lunars are intruding?  Or an elaborate ruse by tricksters
meant to scare the players into rapid, stupid action?  (It would
require a lot of Sight Illusion to make a fake Red Moon...but not more
than one temple of tricksters might have.)


From: (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: THE BLOCK
Message-ID: <>
Date: 4 Feb 93 04:50:45 GMT

> From:
> The Block, in Prax, is composed of Truestone. Truestone has the
> property of compelling those who touch it to cast all the rune magic
> they know into the stone, after which it becomes "set" and can no
> longer accept new magic.  If the Block is "blank" (contains no magic),
> how has it avoided becoming set? If it's set, what and how many spells
> does it contain?

This was one of the many things that bothered me about the new
Truestone rules in Elder Secrets.  It just did not fit with the Block.

As for the new rules our group decided to ignore them and continue
with the rules we were using.  Here are some of the things that I see
wrong with the rules.

  - Why would a piece of law compel one to cast rune spells into it?
    There just does not seem to be a good reason for it.
  - The whole bit about a truestone being able to hold an infinite number
    of spells is silly.  The only limit is how many people can touch it
    at once.  If you arrange it right I think you could have ~15-20
    people touching a one inch sphere.  I can imagine the silly telephone
    booth stuffing type rituals that would ensue.  It also makes it an
    incredably win or lose type thing.  As a GM if you let your players
    find a truestone one of two basic things will happen.  Either someone
    with some rune spells will pick it up first and they will be compelled
    to put all there spells into it, thus making a relatively wimpy item.
    Or someone with out spells will pick it up and it will get taken back
    to a temple where it will likely end up with hundreds of points of
    spells in it, or at least as many as the temple has.
  - These rules are a screw the players or make them gross type rule.  It
    is what my group refers to as a Sandy Peterson "Call of RuneQuest" type

Here are the basics of the rules we use for truestone.

  - Truestones can hold a set number of points of spells.  It tends to be
    the case that the larger the stone the more it holds.
  - No compulsion.
  - You can not tell what the spells are in a truestone just by touching
    it.  An identify magic can tell you.  You can also draw out a spell
    and see what happens.
  - Only the spells of one god(or closely related gods) can be put in
    a single truestone.  Basically when the first spell is put into a
    truestone it gets whole stone gets alligned to that pantheon of spells.
    Even though some points may still be blank only certain spells can
    be put in now.

Here are the special effects of very large true stones like the Block.

  - They are just too large to attune.  Any spell that is cast into it
    disapears like a drop in an ocean.
  - Large truestones will suck all active magic(spirit, rune, etc.) off of
    a person who touches it.
  - Spells cast in close proximity will also get sucket into large truestones.
    Your target needs to be closer then the truestone.
  - Being around large truestones makes one make power checks much more
    quickly.  Once per day rather then once per week.

Rob Mace


From: (Peter Wake)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <>
Date: 4 Feb 93 19:23:33 GMT

>From: (Ghost Dancer)
>Subject: Fatigue and the Glowline - Thoughts and questions
>I read the responses to my fatigue suggestion with interest and I take the
>point about adventurers being at the peak of fitness. One thing that occurs
>to me though is what about non active adventurers or new players with previous
>experience that does not lend itself to physical exertion, examples that come
>to mind are Priests and scribes but you could probably also include Nobles and
>Shaman. Such character types would not have the oppertunities to keep
fit and

Shaman usually have to be very fit actually, and some priests might
not be burdened very heavily with religious duties.  Of course Humakti
and such would have plenty of time too.  You so have to apply things
on a case by case basis.

>should not be able to actively participate in physical activities on the same
>level as a Soldier or Farmer. Are these differences worth bothering about, do
>we want a true to life system or a glossy abstract, I don't know, when does
>realism cease to be an advantage and become a hinderence???

Actually I think this highlights a big problem with the RQ system.
Character's daily activities are too unrestricted.  There is no
WILLPOWER and characters can spend 50 hours a week every week training
the same thing or whatever, unless the referee stops them.

I think that the hour is too small a unit to apply to training.  Some
sort of Daily Utility Phases (who remembers Golden Heroes?) would be
good.  You could then have character allocate DUPS to upkeep of
characteristics on a long term basis and spare DUPS could be used for
training.  The number of DUPS a character would get would vary with
INT, POW and of course profession.  Priests would lose many DUPS to
their work.  Characters could then be farmers in their spare time or
whatever and the game would handle this neatly (and most Orlanthi
warriors are also farmers so taht's not a joke).

>Finaly a question about the Glowline...

King of Sartar makes it ver clear that extending the Glowline is a
massive task.  If it were easy the lunars would extend it wherever
possible.  The planned extension of the glowline into Dragon Pass
involved a two (three?) year ritual an the allocation of massive
manpower to both magical and architectural activites.  Huge numbers of
magicians are required and very senior priests must officiate.
Furthermore the magical effects are so obvious that Orlanth can feel
this activity and direct his servants (or himself) against it.  So
Argrath prevented the ritual from being completed.

Of course in your campaign you can have it any way you want...  We
don't run your campaign, Greg Stafford doesn't run it either, you can
do anything you like.

And now onto my big pitch...


Back in the days of RQII POW had one main use - sacrificing for Rune
Magic.  Shaman's had other uses and Rule Lords would lose it to DI,
but not very often.

In RQIII POW is used for everything.  Shaman's need to accumulate it
to hold spirits.  Priests need it for spell sacrifice and *everyone*
has many things they can enchant with it.  As enchantments are life
blood to sorcerors and pretty vital to everyone else - a few POW
spirit bindings give you a lot of very useful MPs to play with; there
are extra hit points to buy; hit locations can be armoured; matrices
manufactured; and binding objects binding objects binding objects :-)
There are POW rolls for so many things, plus luck and charisma.

POW is now too important.  POW gain rolls are now the most important
things in the experience system (skill gains are now so tiny).  RQ
needs a system for dealing in magical energy that isn't based on
characterisitic POW but on seperable transferable POW.

Ars Magica has Vis (pronounced Veez, from the latim Vim) which does
exactly this job - it is measured in points, used in enchantments and
comes from many sources plus it can have physical form - this gives
the referee much more control.  It's time there was a physical form
for POW and transfer and better ways of acquiring it.  POW as treasure
is much better then POW as experience.  The referee can give it away
or be mean with it as suits his/her campaign instead of relying on
real world luck.  It would also put a stop to magicians who sap their
POW as low as they dare to get POW gains easily.  Why should a wizard
suddenly become an erratic caster just because he made an enchantment?
Many referees might not want to tie all the things that POW is used
for to the attendant magical susceptibility that follows POW usage.
And why a magician should gain stealth because he made an enchantment
to bind elementals is beyond me.

Even if some people like some of these things some of the time there
is still a problem for the people who don't like it.  A Vis like
system with the ability to gain POW naturally as well would satisfy
both requirements: if you don't like Visz (POW points as treasure) you
can simply not give any out.

For those who aren't familiar with Ars Magica

Vis is raw magic in physical form.  It is measured in points and is a
vital trade commodity to wizards.  Vis can be gained from magical
places and from the bodies of magical creatures and as such is the
focus of many quests.  A demon might contains the essence of Vis which
could be extracted from the corpse as a whole or from a part which the
referee judges to be the centre of its magical nature, as suits the
indivual referee.  A fairie grove might have a plant that produces
magical flowers once a year.  A powerful magician might have a ball of
magic bison tails :-)

Vis is required for making enchantments and for making any long
lasting spell.  it can also be used to back the casting of spells to
make them more potent in the short term, or to cast spells normally
beyond the wizards powers.

Vis comes in different flavours and the right sort must be used for
the right job.  Vis from a demon might be good only for destructive
spells while bison tails might be good only for animal based spells.
The referee has control over what sorts of Vis he hands out.  Some
wizards can harvest Vis from themselves.

Peter Wake


From: (Rob Mace)
Subject: Armor and stealth
Message-ID: <>
Date: 4 Feb 93 05:17:47 GMT

> And for armor and stealth, how about adding half the ENC of metal armor
> to your roll when trying to sneak? Rolls of 100+ are always fumbles.
> This makes it much easier to suddenly clank or jingle that armor when
> you're trying to sneak around. It also makes it nearly impossible to get
> special or critical successes. A simple failure to sneak just means that
> made SOME noise. A fumble means you made a LOT of noise, and even a deaf
> man tripping on ten kinds of psychedelics would hear something and
> recognise something was up. IMHO, this is the way armor should interact
> with the sneak skill.

The amount of noise that armor makes has much more to do with
construction then ENC.  The plate body armor I made is covered in
leather.  It makes no more noise then a cotton shirt.  Even jointed
plate limbs can be made very quite by fitting them with bits of
leather so that the plates don't bang together.  The plates can also
be covered with leather so that they do not bang into other things.

Rob Mace


From: (Tim Leask)
Subject: Sun County and the Glowline
Message-ID: <>
Date: 5 Feb 93 15:13:53 GMT

> Finaly a question about the Glowline...

The Glowline currently (1621) extends as far as the city of Furthest
on the Tarsh border which is several hundred kliks from Sun County.
To extend it requires a long and laborious ritual. In King of Sartar
the construction of a Reaching Moon temple and the process of
extending the glowline into Sartar is described.It took Seven years
with Tatius the Bright doing a rush job with 100's of Priests and
Lunar Magicians but unfortunately just as the process was about to be
completed a Dragon awoke and destroyed the Temple and all the Priests.
I don't think you could wake up one morning in Sun County and discover
that the Lunars had secretly built a temple and extended the glowline
into Prax. Maybe you could look at the Crimson Bat Cult for
inspiration they have a spell called Glow Spot which creates a mini
Glowline around the caster. Maybe a small hidden temple with the right
priests and magicians could establish something a little larger but it
would have to be a fairly limited affair.

Just my $0.02

Department of Computer Science    /*\__/\      "Money is something you have in
University of Melbourne          <       \     case you don't die tomorrow."
Parkville, Vic., 3052, AUSTRALIA  \  _  _/     Gordon Gecko.
Phone: +61 3 282 2439              \| --


From: trystro!rune@Think.COM (Peter Maranci)
Subject: Setting the Block
Message-ID: <9302050130.AA04785@Early-Bird.Think.COM>
Date: 4 Feb 93 23:38:48 GMT

> If the Block is "blank" (contains no magic),
> how has it avoided becoming set?

I've just figured it out. The Block is guarded by a legion of Storm
Bull fanatics who know NO magic at all. Since they have nonetheless
managed to defend the Block from being set, their skills must be

Peter Maranci
trystro!                  or                rune@trystro.uucp
Don't blame me -- Wakboth made me do it! 8^>}


From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham)
Subject: heroquests, the Glowline and the Cradle
Date: 4 Feb 93 16:08:41 GMT

>> The power of faith and belief being rather stronger in Glorantha than
>> here, reality changes to accomodate, and this includes the sudden
>> emergence of cult records written before the (historical) founding of
>> the cult, old buildings (like the Old Sun Dome) and so on.
>> REvisionist history writeen across the past in stone and ink.

So the appearance of Valind's Glacier to cover the land of Bija some
time in ~1981 indicates that the enemies of the Kalikos Icebreaker
cult scores a major heroquest victory at that point in the narrative?

>> Finaly a question about the Glowline...

Neither the Pavic nor Sartarite Sun Counties are inside the Glowline -
however most sources published after Cults of Prax seem to indicate
that the Red Moon is visible all over Glorantha (see the sky map in
Elder Secrets), but is full always withing the Glowline.  Establishing
the Glowline is a MAJOR ritual (see King of Sartar for details on the
abortive attempt to found a Reaching Moon temple in Boldhome).

Other recent postings have enquired about the date & storyline of the
Cradle scenario - the date is the day after the player characters have
gotten powerful enough to need to be retired, and the scenario is set
out to send them off with a bang.

Highlights	- Board cradle in ritual at Bullford
		- Cradle repulses mercenaries & Lunar skirmishers
		- Massed Lunar might and magic halts the Cradle in Pavis
		- Lunar looters and anti-Lunar reinforcements board
		- Storm and flood send the cradle on its way
		- Pleasant voyage down river, broken only by having to
			deal with the attempts by the folk at Harpoon to
			bag a prize
		- Grand finale at Corflu
		- Sail off to glory with Argrath (or retire with a fortune)


From: (Ghost Dancer)
Subject: About the Glowline.....
Message-ID: <9302050923.AA10600@Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 93 09:24:00 GMT

Ok folks you can disregard the message I posted yesterday about the
Glowline. I sat down and looked at the Glowline references in King of
Sartar last night and it would seem that the extent of the Glowline is
dependant on an active Lunar Temple, presumably Red Goddess, being in
the area. That being true a small shrine in the vicinity of the
village should be sufficient to extend the Glowline to cover a small
local area. Any thoughts or comments still welcome though.

  /! \  Alternative
 /-!-/  Realities                   Jarec
/  ! \  Games Club                  e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK


From: (Thom Baguley)
Subject: RE: The Glowline
Message-ID: <9302051124.AA15656@Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 93 03:12:15 GMT

>Finaly a question about the Glowline...

I presume you're referring to the Sun Dome Temple in Dragon Pass
rather than the one in Prax. In either case the answer is no. The
Glowline extends as far as the Lunar Tarsh by 1621 (see the Dragon
Pass boardgame which depicts the Glowline on the gameboard). Of
course, how you run your campaign is up to you - there is nothing to
stop anyone altering the official timeline for a good scenario. A
secret temple seems unlikely to me (secretly gathering hundreds or
thousands of worshippers near any Yelmalion settlement would be
tough).  Experimental Lunar magic might be a better bet. A Cthulhu
type Gloranthan campaign sounds fun, Good luck.


    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/


From: (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 01 Feb 1993
Date: 4 Feb 93 18:03:00 GMT

On the subject of Sun County why do Invictus, Vega and all the
Templars have Mobility when it is not a cult spell? I can hardly see
them popping down to the local nomad shaman. Invictus has Mobility 5!


From: (Ghost Dancer)
Subject: River of Cradles
Message-ID: <9302051434.AA26128@Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 93 14:33:00 GMT

I would just like to congratulate everyone involved with the
production of "River of Cradles". I have just obtained my copy and
although I haven't had time to read it yet a quick glance at the maps
and a flip through the pages has convinced me that a new RuneQuest
renaisance is a real possibility. The new style of product used in
such products as this and Sun County is far, far better than the
earlier boxed efforts and the obvious care and considered crafting
that has gone into these products makes them well worth both the price
and the time required to read and fully understand them.

RuneQuest has always been our game which we were all actively invited
to know, love, craft and share. In these respects it is like no other
game, this was removed from us for a time during those hungry years in
the late 80's but now the light is back. I hope that with Ken
Rolston's obvious love of the game we can see RQ return to way it was
so many years ago. Once again congratulations to all involved in River
of Cradles.

Let the Hero wars roll on.
  /! \  Alternative
 /-!-/  Realities                 Jarec
/  ! \  Games Club                e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK


From: (Clay Luther)
Subject: Important People in Pavis
Message-ID: <>
Date: 5 Feb 93 05:17:52 GMT

Can anyone submit a glossary of important people in Pavis not
mentioned in RoC?  For instance, I'd like to know the names and
thumbnail descriptions of the important members of several temples
(Lightbringers, esp.).

I noticed while reading Sun County (in the Garhound adventure) that
the author mentions a Lankhor Mhy priest(ess?) of some importance.
However, he doesn't describe this person anywhere else.  I only assume
that this is supposed to be the Pavis priest come down for the contest
and festivities.

Also, on a side note, Garhound seemed to conveniently have a large
number of earth-related priestesses and acolytes standing around.  I
assumed they came from other villages/areas, but the author also
didn't speak to this.  I assumed this to be reasonable, since, after
all, the Lunar Governor is coming to what I first read as a podunk
little festival.  Then again, when I think about it, I guess it's not
unlikely that the governor of New Mexico might show up at the
Hillsboro Apple Festival or the governor of Texas heading down to
Terlingua for the chili cook-off.  Any comments?

Clay W. Luther                       
Software Engineer                             Vortech Data, Inc
Office (214) 994-1377                        Fax (214) 994-1310

Well, it had been 987 years in outer space time when I got back.
Couldn't seem to find any of my friends to tell my interesting
stories to.