Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 18:23:37 +0100 From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Digest Subscriptions) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Feb 1993 This is an semi-automated digest, sent out once per day (if any messages are pending). Replies will be included in the next issue automatically. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. -- Send Submissions to:Enquiries to: The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM --------------------- From: brandon@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993 Message-ID: <9302041701.AA16765@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov> Date: 4 Feb 93 17:01:35 GMT >Finaly a question about the Glowline. Is Sun Dome County included in the Gl >Glowline (1621 ST), I can find no reference that mentions this but I may be >looking in the wrong place. If it isn't already within the Glowline then >what are the requirements for inclusion? Extending the Glowline is what the Temple of the Reaching Moon does. When an area has been under lunar domination for long enough that it is considered fairly stable politically, the Reaching Moon cult builds temples there to connect the new area up with the existing Empire. Once these are built and the appropriate rituals performed, the Glowline extends to incorporate the new lands into the Empire. Brandon Brylawski --------------------- From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993 Message-ID: <9302041646.AA05833@hpcc90.corp.hp.com> Date: 4 Feb 93 16:46:08 GMT > From: g.hoyle@genie.geis.com > Subject: THE BLOCK > > Truestone has the property of compelling those who touch it to cast all > the rune magic they know into the stone, after which it becomes "set" and > can no longer accept new magic. I believe this is incorrect. Truestone can *accept* Rune magic cast into it, but does not *compel* a holder to cast Rune magic into it. > If it's set, what and how many spells does it contain? Only the highest of the Storm Bulls guarding it would know. Wanna go and ask them?-) > From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer) > Subject: Fatigue and the Glowline - Thoughts and questions > > If it isn't already within the Glowline then what are the requirements > for inclusion? A special ceremony must be performed by the priestesses of the Conquering Moon (Hwarin Dalthippa? Damn, memory is fading.) Presumably this would take some time, and might draw an Orlanthi raid in an attempt to disrupt the ceremony. Undoing the ceremony might take a HeroQuest. Jeff --------------------- From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink) Subject: The Block and the Glowline Message-ID: <199302041825.AA15805@sun.Panix.Com> Date: 4 Feb 93 08:25:58 GMT >If the Block is "blank" (contains >no magic), how has it avoided becoming set? If it's set, what and >how many spells does it contain? >--Guy (Mulborth) Hoyle I've always assumed that the Block was set when it was used, and now contains all the Rune magic of the Devil! (Just kidding. Maybe.) Ghost Dancer writes: >Finaly a question about the Glowline. Is Sun Dome County included >in the Gl Glowline (1621 ST), I can find no reference that >mentions this but I may be looking in the wrong place. If it isn't >already within the Glowline then what are the requirements for >inclusion? The reason I ask is that I am writting a scenario set >in Morning in Sun Dome County and would like to put a bit of >pressure on the party by having them wake up one morning to find >the Red Moon in the sky, they would then of course want to find >out why and possibly stop it. What I am looking for is something >subtle such as a hidden Seven Mothers temple being established, No part of Prax, including Sun Dome County, is within the Glowline. If you look at _King of Sartar_, you'll realize that the Glowline is still located in the north of Dragon Pass in 1621. Also in _KOS_ is a description of the ceremony necessary to extend the Glowline. It seems to involve years of rituals performed by hundreds of priests, so one hidden temple probably couldn't do it. How about if the "Red Moon" hanging in the sky is a sign from some other god that the Lunars are intruding? Or an elaborate ruse by tricksters meant to scare the players into rapid, stupid action? (It would require a lot of Sight Illusion to make a fake Red Moon...but not more than one temple of tricksters might have.) Carl --------------------- From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) Subject: Re: THE BLOCK Message-ID: <9302042050.AA16149@lum.asd.sgi.com> Date: 4 Feb 93 04:50:45 GMT > From: g.hoyle@genie.geis.com > > The Block, in Prax, is composed of Truestone. Truestone has the > property of compelling those who touch it to cast all the rune magic > they know into the stone, after which it becomes "set" and can no > longer accept new magic. If the Block is "blank" (contains no magic), > how has it avoided becoming set? If it's set, what and how many spells > does it contain? This was one of the many things that bothered me about the new Truestone rules in Elder Secrets. It just did not fit with the Block. As for the new rules our group decided to ignore them and continue with the rules we were using. Here are some of the things that I see wrong with the rules. - Why would a piece of law compel one to cast rune spells into it? There just does not seem to be a good reason for it. - The whole bit about a truestone being able to hold an infinite number of spells is silly. The only limit is how many people can touch it at once. If you arrange it right I think you could have ~15-20 people touching a one inch sphere. I can imagine the silly telephone booth stuffing type rituals that would ensue. It also makes it an incredably win or lose type thing. As a GM if you let your players find a truestone one of two basic things will happen. Either someone with some rune spells will pick it up first and they will be compelled to put all there spells into it, thus making a relatively wimpy item. Or someone with out spells will pick it up and it will get taken back to a temple where it will likely end up with hundreds of points of spells in it, or at least as many as the temple has. - These rules are a screw the players or make them gross type rule. It is what my group refers to as a Sandy Peterson "Call of RuneQuest" type rule. Here are the basics of the rules we use for truestone. - Truestones can hold a set number of points of spells. It tends to be the case that the larger the stone the more it holds. - No compulsion. - You can not tell what the spells are in a truestone just by touching it. An identify magic can tell you. You can also draw out a spell and see what happens. - Only the spells of one god(or closely related gods) can be put in a single truestone. Basically when the first spell is put into a truestone it gets whole stone gets alligned to that pantheon of spells. Even though some points may still be blank only certain spells can be put in now. Here are the special effects of very large true stones like the Block. - They are just too large to attune. Any spell that is cast into it disapears like a drop in an ocean. - Large truestones will suck all active magic(spirit, rune, etc.) off of a person who touches it. - Spells cast in close proximity will also get sucket into large truestones. Your target needs to be closer then the truestone. - Being around large truestones makes one make power checks much more quickly. Once per day rather then once per week. Rob Mace --------------------- From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 04 Feb 1993 Message-ID: <9302041923.AA29260@r2d.cs.man.ac.uk> Date: 4 Feb 93 19:23:33 GMT >From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer) >Subject: Fatigue and the Glowline - Thoughts and questions > >I read the responses to my fatigue suggestion with interest and I take the >point about adventurers being at the peak of fitness. One thing that occurs >to me though is what about non active adventurers or new players with previous >experience that does not lend itself to physical exertion, examples that come >to mind are Priests and scribes but you could probably also include Nobles and >Shaman. Such character types would not have the oppertunities to keep fit and Shaman usually have to be very fit actually, and some priests might not be burdened very heavily with religious duties. Of course Humakti and such would have plenty of time too. You so have to apply things on a case by case basis. >should not be able to actively participate in physical activities on the same >level as a Soldier or Farmer. Are these differences worth bothering about, do >we want a true to life system or a glossy abstract, I don't know, when does >realism cease to be an advantage and become a hinderence??? Actually I think this highlights a big problem with the RQ system. Character's daily activities are too unrestricted. There is no WILLPOWER and characters can spend 50 hours a week every week training the same thing or whatever, unless the referee stops them. I think that the hour is too small a unit to apply to training. Some sort of Daily Utility Phases (who remembers Golden Heroes?) would be good. You could then have character allocate DUPS to upkeep of characteristics on a long term basis and spare DUPS could be used for training. The number of DUPS a character would get would vary with INT, POW and of course profession. Priests would lose many DUPS to their work. Characters could then be farmers in their spare time or whatever and the game would handle this neatly (and most Orlanthi warriors are also farmers so taht's not a joke). >Finaly a question about the Glowline... King of Sartar makes it ver clear that extending the Glowline is a massive task. If it were easy the lunars would extend it wherever possible. The planned extension of the glowline into Dragon Pass involved a two (three?) year ritual an the allocation of massive manpower to both magical and architectural activites. Huge numbers of magicians are required and very senior priests must officiate. Furthermore the magical effects are so obvious that Orlanth can feel this activity and direct his servants (or himself) against it. So Argrath prevented the ritual from being completed. Of course in your campaign you can have it any way you want... We don't run your campaign, Greg Stafford doesn't run it either, you can do anything you like. And now onto my big pitch... POW in RQ III ============= Back in the days of RQII POW had one main use - sacrificing for Rune Magic. Shaman's had other uses and Rule Lords would lose it to DI, but not very often. In RQIII POW is used for everything. Shaman's need to accumulate it to hold spirits. Priests need it for spell sacrifice and *everyone* has many things they can enchant with it. As enchantments are life blood to sorcerors and pretty vital to everyone else - a few POW spirit bindings give you a lot of very useful MPs to play with; there are extra hit points to buy; hit locations can be armoured; matrices manufactured; and binding objects binding objects binding objects :-) There are POW rolls for so many things, plus luck and charisma. POW is now too important. POW gain rolls are now the most important things in the experience system (skill gains are now so tiny). RQ needs a system for dealing in magical energy that isn't based on characterisitic POW but on seperable transferable POW. Ars Magica has Vis (pronounced Veez, from the latim Vim) which does exactly this job - it is measured in points, used in enchantments and comes from many sources plus it can have physical form - this gives the referee much more control. It's time there was a physical form for POW and transfer and better ways of acquiring it. POW as treasure is much better then POW as experience. The referee can give it away or be mean with it as suits his/her campaign instead of relying on real world luck. It would also put a stop to magicians who sap their POW as low as they dare to get POW gains easily. Why should a wizard suddenly become an erratic caster just because he made an enchantment? Many referees might not want to tie all the things that POW is used for to the attendant magical susceptibility that follows POW usage. And why a magician should gain stealth because he made an enchantment to bind elementals is beyond me. Even if some people like some of these things some of the time there is still a problem for the people who don't like it. A Vis like system with the ability to gain POW naturally as well would satisfy both requirements: if you don't like Visz (POW points as treasure) you can simply not give any out. Background ---------- For those who aren't familiar with Ars Magica Vis is raw magic in physical form. It is measured in points and is a vital trade commodity to wizards. Vis can be gained from magical places and from the bodies of magical creatures and as such is the focus of many quests. A demon might contains the essence of Vis which could be extracted from the corpse as a whole or from a part which the referee judges to be the centre of its magical nature, as suits the indivual referee. A fairie grove might have a plant that produces magical flowers once a year. A powerful magician might have a ball of magic bison tails :-) Vis is required for making enchantments and for making any long lasting spell. it can also be used to back the casting of spells to make them more potent in the short term, or to cast spells normally beyond the wizards powers. Vis comes in different flavours and the right sort must be used for the right job. Vis from a demon might be good only for destructive spells while bison tails might be good only for animal based spells. The referee has control over what sorts of Vis he hands out. Some wizards can harvest Vis from themselves. -- Peter Wake --------------------- From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) Subject: Armor and stealth Message-ID: <9302042117.AA16244@lum.asd.sgi.com> Date: 4 Feb 93 05:17:47 GMT > From: MILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU (Loren J. Miller) > > And for armor and stealth, how about adding half the ENC of metal armor > to your roll when trying to sneak? Rolls of 100+ are always fumbles. > This makes it much easier to suddenly clank or jingle that armor when > you're trying to sneak around. It also makes it nearly impossible to get > special or critical successes. A simple failure to sneak just means that > made SOME noise. A fumble means you made a LOT of noise, and even a deaf > man tripping on ten kinds of psychedelics would hear something and > recognise something was up. IMHO, this is the way armor should interact > with the sneak skill. The amount of noise that armor makes has much more to do with construction then ENC. The plate body armor I made is covered in leather. It makes no more noise then a cotton shirt. Even jointed plate limbs can be made very quite by fitting them with bits of leather so that the plates don't bang together. The plates can also be covered with leather so that they do not bang into other things. Rob Mace --------------------- From: tsl@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask) Subject: Sun County and the Glowline Message-ID: <9302042313.19436@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Date: 5 Feb 93 15:13:53 GMT > Finaly a question about the Glowline... The Glowline currently (1621) extends as far as the city of Furthest on the Tarsh border which is several hundred kliks from Sun County. To extend it requires a long and laborious ritual. In King of Sartar the construction of a Reaching Moon temple and the process of extending the glowline into Sartar is described.It took Seven years with Tatius the Bright doing a rush job with 100's of Priests and Lunar Magicians but unfortunately just as the process was about to be completed a Dragon awoke and destroyed the Temple and all the Priests. I don't think you could wake up one morning in Sun County and discover that the Lunars had secretly built a temple and extended the glowline into Prax. Maybe you could look at the Crimson Bat Cult for inspiration they have a spell called Glow Spot which creates a mini Glowline around the caster. Maybe a small hidden temple with the right priests and magicians could establish something a little larger but it would have to be a fairly limited affair. Just my $0.02 Tim =============================================================================== Department of Computer Science /*\__/\ "Money is something you have in University of Melbourne < \ case you don't die tomorrow." Parkville, Vic., 3052, AUSTRALIA \ _ _/ Gordon Gecko. Phone: +61 3 282 2439 \| -- e-mail: tsl@cs.mu.oz.au =============================================================================== --------------------- From: trystro!rune@Think.COM (Peter Maranci) Subject: Setting the Block Message-ID: <9302050130.AA04785@Early-Bird.Think.COM> Date: 4 Feb 93 23:38:48 GMT > If the Block is "blank" (contains no magic), > how has it avoided becoming set? I've just figured it out. The Block is guarded by a legion of Storm Bull fanatics who know NO magic at all. Since they have nonetheless managed to defend the Block from being set, their skills must be formidable...8^>} -->Pete ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci trystro!rune@think.com or rune@trystro.uucp Don't blame me -- Wakboth made me do it! 8^>} --------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham) Subject: heroquests, the Glowline and the Cradle Message-ID: <01GUCCJ0JLQA001KLS@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 4 Feb 93 16:08:41 GMT >> The power of faith and belief being rather stronger in Glorantha than >> here, reality changes to accomodate, and this includes the sudden >> emergence of cult records written before the (historical) founding of >> the cult, old buildings (like the Old Sun Dome) and so on. >> REvisionist history writeen across the past in stone and ink. So the appearance of Valind's Glacier to cover the land of Bija some time in ~1981 indicates that the enemies of the Kalikos Icebreaker cult scores a major heroquest victory at that point in the narrative? >> Finaly a question about the Glowline... Neither the Pavic nor Sartarite Sun Counties are inside the Glowline - however most sources published after Cults of Prax seem to indicate that the Red Moon is visible all over Glorantha (see the sky map in Elder Secrets), but is full always withing the Glowline. Establishing the Glowline is a MAJOR ritual (see King of Sartar for details on the abortive attempt to found a Reaching Moon temple in Boldhome). Other recent postings have enquired about the date & storyline of the Cradle scenario - the date is the day after the player characters have gotten powerful enough to need to be retired, and the scenario is set out to send them off with a bang. Highlights - Board cradle in ritual at Bullford - Cradle repulses mercenaries & Lunar skirmishers - Massed Lunar might and magic halts the Cradle in Pavis - Lunar looters and anti-Lunar reinforcements board - Storm and flood send the cradle on its way - Pleasant voyage down river, broken only by having to deal with the attempts by the folk at Harpoon to bag a prize - Grand finale at Corflu - Sail off to glory with Argrath (or retire with a fortune) --------------------- From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer) Subject: About the Glowline..... Message-ID: <9302050923.AA10600@Sun.COM> Date: 5 Feb 93 09:24:00 GMT Ok folks you can disregard the message I posted yesterday about the Glowline. I sat down and looked at the Glowline references in King of Sartar last night and it would seem that the extent of the Glowline is dependant on an active Lunar Temple, presumably Red Goddess, being in the area. That being true a small shrine in the vicinity of the village should be sufficient to extend the Glowline to cover a small local area. Any thoughts or comments still welcome though. ._ /! \ Alternative /-!-/ Realities Jarec / ! \ Games Club e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK --------------------- From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) Subject: RE: The Glowline Message-ID: <9302051124.AA15656@Sun.COM> Date: 5 Feb 93 03:12:15 GMT >Finaly a question about the Glowline... I presume you're referring to the Sun Dome Temple in Dragon Pass rather than the one in Prax. In either case the answer is no. The Glowline extends as far as the Lunar Tarsh by 1621 (see the Dragon Pass boardgame which depicts the Glowline on the gameboard). Of course, how you run your campaign is up to you - there is nothing to stop anyone altering the official timeline for a good scenario. A secret temple seems unlikely to me (secretly gathering hundreds or thousands of worshippers near any Yelmalion settlement would be tough). Experimental Lunar magic might be a better bet. A Cthulhu type Gloranthan campaign sounds fun, Good luck. Thom _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Human Cognition Research Lab _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ The Open University _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Tel: +44 908 65-4518 Fax: -3169 _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk --------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 01 Feb 1993 Message-ID: Date: 4 Feb 93 18:03:00 GMT On the subject of Sun County why do Invictus, Vega and all the Templars have Mobility when it is not a cult spell? I can hardly see them popping down to the local nomad shaman. Invictus has Mobility 5! --------------------- From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer) Subject: River of Cradles Message-ID: <9302051434.AA26128@Sun.COM> Date: 5 Feb 93 14:33:00 GMT I would just like to congratulate everyone involved with the production of "River of Cradles". I have just obtained my copy and although I haven't had time to read it yet a quick glance at the maps and a flip through the pages has convinced me that a new RuneQuest renaisance is a real possibility. The new style of product used in such products as this and Sun County is far, far better than the earlier boxed efforts and the obvious care and considered crafting that has gone into these products makes them well worth both the price and the time required to read and fully understand them. RuneQuest has always been our game which we were all actively invited to know, love, craft and share. In these respects it is like no other game, this was removed from us for a time during those hungry years in the late 80's but now the light is back. I hope that with Ken Rolston's obvious love of the game we can see RQ return to way it was so many years ago. Once again congratulations to all involved in River of Cradles. Let the Hero wars roll on. ._ /! \ Alternative /-!-/ Realities Jarec / ! \ Games Club e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK --------------------- From: clay@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther) Subject: Important People in Pavis Message-ID: <9302051711.AA18696@charon.vortech.com> Date: 5 Feb 93 05:17:52 GMT Can anyone submit a glossary of important people in Pavis not mentioned in RoC? For instance, I'd like to know the names and thumbnail descriptions of the important members of several temples (Lightbringers, esp.). I noticed while reading Sun County (in the Garhound adventure) that the author mentions a Lankhor Mhy priest(ess?) of some importance. However, he doesn't describe this person anywhere else. I only assume that this is supposed to be the Pavis priest come down for the contest and festivities. Also, on a side note, Garhound seemed to conveniently have a large number of earth-related priestesses and acolytes standing around. I assumed they came from other villages/areas, but the author also didn't speak to this. I assumed this to be reasonable, since, after all, the Lunar Governor is coming to what I first read as a podunk little festival. Then again, when I think about it, I guess it's not unlikely that the governor of New Mexico might show up at the Hillsboro Apple Festival or the governor of Texas heading down to Terlingua for the chili cook-off. Any comments? --- Clay W. Luther clay@vortech.com Software Engineer Vortech Data, Inc Office (214) 994-1377 Fax (214) 994-1310 Also cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu Well, it had been 987 years in outer space time when I got back. Couldn't seem to find any of my friends to tell my interesting stories to.