Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 16:59:03 +0100
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Digest Subscriptions)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 08 Feb 1993
This is an semi-automated digest, sent out once per day (if any
messages are pending). Replies will be included in the next issue
automatically.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
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--
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The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM
---------------------
From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <9302051809.AA18276@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 18:09:31 GMT
> From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham)
> Subject: heroquests, the Glowline and the Cradle
>
> most sources published after Cults of Prax seem to indicate that the Red Moon
> is visible all over Glorantha (see the sky map in Elder Secrets), but is full
> always withing the Glowline.
You have it exactly.
Jeff
---------------------
From: clay@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <9302051829.AA18774@charon.vortech.com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 06:35:50 GMT
>Extending the Glowline is what the Temple of the Reaching Moon does. When
>an area has been under lunar domination for long enough that it is considered
>fairly stable politically, the Reaching Moon cult builds temples there to
>connect the new area up with the existing Empire. Once these are built and
>the appropriate rituals performed, the Glowline extends to incorporate the
>new lands into the Empire.
An interesting adventure concept built around this: Orlanthi
terrorist/freedom fighters attempt to destroy such newly built temples
in their lands or otherwise disrupt the ceremonies.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, Gem, is to kill *this*
Lunar priest.
---
Clay W. Luther clay@vortech.com
Software Engineer Vortech Data, Inc
Office (214) 994-1377 Fax (214) 994-1310
Also cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
Well, it had been 987 years in outer space time when I got back.
Couldn't seem to find any of my friends to tell my interesting
stories to.
---------------------
From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Mobility and multiple priests
Message-ID: <199302051928.AA25215@sun.Panix.Com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 09:28:16 GMT
Tom Zunder writes:
>On the subject of Sun County why do Invictus, Vega and all the
>Templars have Mobility when it is not a cult spell? I can hardly
>see them popping down to the local nomad shaman.
They get it from the friendly Lokarnos religion, Tom.
Clay Luther writes:
>Also, on a side note, Garhound seemed to conveniently have a large
>number of earth-related priestesses and acolytes standing around.
>I assumed they came from other villages/areas, but the author also
>didn't speak to this.
I have always assumed that the number of dedicated religious types
(priests and acolytes) would be higher in a Gloranthan civilization,
because unlike Earth, where priests are essentially nonproductive (in
the sense of primary production) Gloranthan priests, particularly
Earth priests, are *enormously* productive, because their spells can
increase the fertility of land, heal injured workers, etc. Another
difference from Earth is that in Glorantha, there are real
supernatural threats to dispel - if *I* lived in Garhound, I'd want a
few priests and acolytes around to repel evil spirits...because in
Garhound, there really are evil spirits.
Carl Fink
---------------------
From: jeff@cotopaxi.Stanford.EDU (Jeff Freymueller)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 05 Feb 1993
Message-ID: <9302051944.AA09382@cotopaxi.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 5 Feb 93 19:44:39 GMT
I'm trying to figure out who said what earlier in this thread. My
apologies if I've mixed up the attribution...
>From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
>I think that the hour is too small a unit to apply to training. Some
>sort of Daily Utility Phases (who remembers Golden Heroes?) would be
>good. You could then have character allocate DUPS to upkeep of
>characteristics on a long term basis and spare DUPS could be used for
>training. The number of DUPS a character would get would vary with
>INT, POW and of course profession. Priests would lose many DUPS to
>their work. Characters could then be farmers in their spare time or
>whatever and the game would handle this neatly (and most Orlanthi
>warriors are also farmers so taht's not a joke).
I like this idea a lot. Since the RQ4 rules are being worked on, this
could be included as an optional system for campaign play. In order to
maintain your basic skills and characteristics, you would need to
spend so many DUPS per week, leaving you with a certain amount
available for training. If this could be made into a clean,
easy-to-use system, I think it would be a great help.
For characters with non-adventuring professions (or side professions)
this would also be a great guide for the characters non-adventuring
activities.
I would tend to use the system as a guide rather than a set of
absolute rule. And it isn't always necessary to enforce limitations on
training. In my Earth campaign, the PCs were awarded a house and a
stipend for performing a notable service, and almost none of them ever
did any training or anything! They drank, chased women, and relaxed.
I'm sure the warriors sparred to keep in practice, although we never
specified it. In my opinion, this was far more realistic behavior than
the compulsive training I've seen (and done with some PCs) in other
games. I think not having the goal of becoming a Runelord to shoot
for helped motivate the PCs to enjoy life instead of trying to master
skills.
Jeff
---------------------
From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: RQ: Settings and miscellaneous
Message-ID: <9302052021.AA18903@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 5 Feb 93 04:21:05 GMT
> trystro!rune@Think.COM (Peter Maranci)
>
> Gee, I've always run *all* my games with the Runequest
> system, and only about half of them are set in Glorantha. I'm not
> suggesting that Chaosium/AH should make any other setting to
> *rival* Glorantha -- after all, that wouldn't be possible. But
> since RQ is a system for more sophisticated gamers, why not supply
> them with more sophisticated game tools? I mean, I doubt that
> many RQ players play only in Glorantha. If I'm wrong about this,
> I'd like to hear about it.
The problem I see with doing non-Gloranthan supplements is that they
will not generally fit into ones non-Gloranthan world. I don't want
to see a bunch of non-Gloranthan supplements that don't fit in a world
I use. Just look at the ones that have been done.
Quest World
Vikings
Land of the Ninja
Daughters of Darkness
Elderad
(Probably some others I am forgeting.)
How many of these fit into your non-Gloranthan worlds? How well do
they fit with each other?
As long as you are doing some of your RQ gaming in Glorantha the
Gloranthan supplements will be relavent.
So until we reach a time when non-Gloranthan supplements would not
reduce the number of Gloranthan supplements published I don't want to
see them done.
Rob Mace
---------------------
From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Various bits and pieces etc.
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Feb 93 15:42:00 GMT
Elmal/Yelmalio.
I think that my view of this is twofold, one why did GS f***k it up
and mess around? This is too late in the day to fundamentally mess
with a cult like Yelmalio. Still, he did, and whatever he says, we'll
have to live with this one. Small differences are okay but this is a
biggie.
I view what KoS says as an evolution and I think that the Sun Domers
would view it similarly. Thay wont have forgotten Elmal, they will
have realised, thorugh Monrogh's help that Elmal was Yelmalio, and
with his help seen the full Truth as opposed to a muddied Orlanthi
view of their god.
The cult hierarchy will not spread this knowledge too far, but will
say that Elmal is simply an obscured view of Yelmalio. Therefore the
cult is contiguous. The Old Sun Dome Temple isn't a problem, it was an
Elmal temple.
That the Sun Domers have culturally changed is no problem, all
cultures change but fundamentally believe that the past was as the
present. It is the mythical past where big changes happen.
Therefore I see the Elmal thing as easily dealt with. The old
documents may refer to Elmal, but they'll be in Sartar and buried in
the archives. Thos sophisticated enuff to see them will know the
story and know that Elmal is just another name for Yelmalio.
NOW: Does Glorantha have a real set of gods or are they a reflection of
the worshippers? If there is a core set of "real" gods then we can accept
all varitaions as the effect of seeing the same mythology differently.
Terefore Elmal and Yelmalio probably are the same god, indeed one can
easily see that Yelmalio and Orlanth fought, Zorak Zoran stole Fire from
Yelmalio and at a later date they fought and became colleagues. That
Yelmalio stayed in the world when Yelm died and when Orlanth went to hell
im perfect as the god who defends the last homestead. In Orlanhi culture
he is played up a thane of Orlanth, in Yelmic culture he is noble even to
the pouint of aiding the rebellious Orlanth in making repentance to Yelm.
If they don't exist then it's all relative and you can explain it how
you like. If it is relative then I think there would be more variation
than the RQ material would sugest.
I prefer the idea that the gods are fundamentally real but changeable
by their worshippers to some xtent.
The feel of KoS is that Glorantha becomes scientific/secular and
modern in the Age of Illiteracy. I don't like the idea of that at all.
---------------------
From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: The Primal Order
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Feb 93 15:42:00 GMT
Has anyone used The Primal Order? Do you actually play gods using the
rules?
I want to play a deity campaign, as the basis of a RQ game in which
the players helped develop the mythology themselves.
I want to start with "There was nothing.." and let the players develop
it from there!
---------------------
From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: RL/A in RQ 4
Message-ID:
Date: 6 Feb 93 15:42:00 GMT
I think that Acolytes are a good position, allowing Rune lords to act
with the power of priests. I think lay membership need not to be
overdone, just explained. We use it still, but as a loose thing. I
also allow associated cult members access to the lead cult far more
than implied. In Sun County the Ourania nuns would be right up the
creek if you don't allow a high degree of cross worship etc.
---------------------
From: g.hoyle@genie.geis.com
Subject: THE NAME GAME
Message-ID: <9302061959.AA09174@relay1.geis.com>
Date: 6 Feb 93 18:49:00 GMT
Many cultures incorporate the names of gods into personal names.
'Thor' is often found in Scandinavian countries; my sister has a
friend named Thor, and he's an American! Biblical names often end in
'-iah','-jah',and '-ia', which are contractions of the name of God, as
well as '-el', which is another of God's numerous nicknames. '-el' and
'-bel' were also common divine name elements in the ancient middle
east, as well as '-sin', all the names of ancient deities. The Greek
'Herakles' means 'Glory of Hera'. The names of the gods often show up
in Egyptian names, such as Tut-ankh-AMUN, or SET-i. The gods show up
more often in names than one might think!
---------------------
From: langsl@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: DIGEST/DAILY entry
Message-ID: <00967D18F885BE00.00000B9F@hhcs.gov.au>
Date: 8 Feb 93 20:07:50 GMT
Greetings - I'm relatively new to this list, and I thought it was
about time I said hello and passed some comments. I am only new to
RQ, and I am playing in an RQ2 campaign (though I have RQ3 rules,
somewhere 8-).
Armour Effects on Combat in other Game Systems
----------------------------------------------
GURPS has a -3 penalty on vision and hearing rolls (-3 on 3d6 roll for
those who don't know gurps) for wearing a 'full head helmet' - which I
assume means a closed helm. The weapon skill penalty is only -1 :
matching well with the person who suggested that even a closed helmet
doesn't seriously degrade skill in a 1 on 1 fight.
I'd suggest that a -30% on search/scan/listen type rolls, plus a -10%
on weapon attack, would be an appropriate conversion.
RQiv
----
Could someone tell me what RQiv is all about? And if there is a draft
copy going around for comment, could someone send me a copy please?
The Digest/Daily messages I have seen implies that there is a copy -
and I'd like to read it before joining in discussion on it.
Group Archives and Cult Notes
-----------------------------
Does this group have any archives I could look at (and if so, how do
you go about doing this?) Aside from history I am interested in cults,
particularly if there are any writeups suitable for a roguish
character who doesn't want to be Orlanthi or a Trickster. If an
appropriate cult has been written up, or any of you have suggestions,
please let me know.
---------------------
From: Henk.Langeveld@sunnl
Subject: lay-members
Message-ID:
Date: 4 Feb 93 20:24:11 GMT
King of Sartar, p246, Jalk's Book, Report on the Orlanthi,
Initiatory Status, last paragraph:
An observer can be admitted to some rituals. Most of the larger,
social rituals allow observers. These people must be friendly or at
least open, to the proceedings. Outsiders call these people /lay
members/, though the use of this term is discouraged as probably being
of God-Learner origin. Though they can watch what is going on, they
never participate in the magic, and never get to see anything other
than the mundane results of the rites.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex)
Subject: Yamsur and Elmal
Message-ID: <9302061842.AA04475@speedwell.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Feb 93 18:42:37 GMT
Carl Fink:
> In any case, the initiate who says
> "Fire!" would presumably run to a priest and be assigned penance before
> Monrogh attacks.
That's a good point. But do you play it that way in general? I would
think that some, eg Humakt, would take place immediately, at least for
serious offenders. Does the offender at least always become Inactive?
Does (s)he lose the use of Gifts for the duration?
> >That's pretty weird. Being named after a God seems i) improbable;
> >ii) blasphemous; iii) problematic if only his name survives to the
> >present, and no other knowledge; and iv) confusing. Why not just
> >rename the Hero?
Mike Dawson:
> However, you only have to
> look to a hispanic country to run across many people named Jesus! And
> what about Arabic countries, where the tradition is to name the 1st
> born male child Mohammed?
OK, point(s) taken. However, I'm not aware of many cases of children
called Jesus Christ, or The Prophet Mohammed, which would be more
analogous to this cases.
> It grew out of a cultural "contamination" by Dara Happa solar
> worshippers
Yes, but how does this get to Sun County, what with "Solitude of
Testing" and all?
> The contamination came by tempting the Elmlio cultists to expand out
> of their bounds as guardians, and guys that always got the snot
> beaten out of them in religious rituals, where they traditionally
> took the roles of the solar enemies of Orlanth. They got uppity, and
> they started to try an win, which can have serious repercussions to
> the well being of your festival.
Ah, _that's_ where the HeroQuesting comes in. But the myths are much
the same before and after, aren't they? At least, I haven't heard of
any differences that are more than a matter of interpretation, really.
Unless the heroquesting has changed the myths even for the remaining
_Elmal_ worshippers.
> The power of faith and belief being rather stronger in Glorantha than
> here, reality changes to accomodate, and this includes the sudden
> emergence of cult records written before the (historical) founding of
> the cult, old buildings (like the Old Sun Dome) and so on.
> REvisionist history writeen across the past in stone and ink.
That's stretching the HeroQuesting and Retroactive Change idea a
little far for my personal taste. For example, you'd have a lot of
changing about to do in the case of Solinthor... retirement towers,
hymns about Yelm, and membership of:
> ON Yelm the Elder:
> I think the various solar cults who enable Yelm status actually do
> the supporting necessary, without having to have a big local
> population.
But still, surely retiring to YtE is only an option if there's _some_
Yelm worship in the area. There is in Sun County "now", but I don't
think there was a significant amount in 12xx, regardless of the
Elmal/Yelmalio business.
> Thus, you retire to Yelm the Elder, but you don't have to lead a
> congregattion or anything like that.
I think that's true. Nick Brooke suggests that the whole Yelmalio
retirement tower bit is a Yelm the Elder knock-off.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex)
Subject: Rune Metals and Enchantments
Message-ID: <9302062159.AA19256@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Feb 93 21:59:33 GMT
Some notes and queries about Rune Metals, and enchantment thereof.
What are the runic associations of the various metals anyway?
Clearly:
Lead :: darkness
Quicksilver :: water
Copper :: earth
Yelm :: fire
Bronze :: air
and more or less clearly:
Silver :: air and/or moon
but what about Iron? (death? stasis?) Aluminium? (water, or heat?)
And is lo-metal really a different colour from sa-metal? I have
difficulty with the idea of lots of grim-looking Magasta cultists
Floating About in cheerily bright red armour (and it makes me think of
my anodised (earthly) aluminium house key). And what about Tin?
Truth?? Okay, so I'm stretching the Rune metaphor a little far,
perhaps, but humour me a little.
Access to Rune metals doesn't seem very coupled to Rune-level status
in RQ3. Once an item is enchanted, anyone can use it, seemingly. And
in principle, even initiates could enchant metal by themselves, if
they had access to the raw metal, and POW to burn on the spell and
enchantment process. What mechanisms control access to, and use of,
Rune metals, other than GM fiat? It makes sense that iron not be so
restricted in the West and among dwarves, so I have no problem with
the sorcerous Enchant Metal rules.
User conditions and Enchant Metal: can these be usefully used
together? What would the effect be? An iron sword which reduces the
spirit magic chance of a ineligible user? (As per RQ2, roughly.)
Copper armour which temporarily loses AP if worn by such a user?
Enchantment and POW sacrifice: must it be the caster who supplies the POW
for an enchantment? This rule appears to be creatively "bent" in _Sun_
_County_. This would appear to have the consequence that if a Rune Lord
wishes Enchanted weapons or armour he must either convince a priest to
supply the POW, or sacrifice for both a one-use Enchant Metal spell, and
then further POW for the actual enchantment.
--
Alex Ferguson.
ARPA: alex%dcs.glasgow.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: alex@glasgow.uucp
BANGNET: ...!mcvax!ukc!dcs.glasgow.ac.uk!alex JANET: alex@uk.ac.glasgow.dcs
"You mean you could have walked the galaxy and you simply never bothered?"
---------------------
From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer)
Subject: GLOWLINE
Message-ID: <9302081048.AA11640@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Feb 93 09:04:00 GMT
Hi again,
Thanks for all the comments and ideas about the Glowline. I
particularly liked the suggestion about a fake Red Moon being produced
by a Trickster cult, I think I'll use this variation as it should tie
in nicely with the rest of the scenario. For those of you who may be
interested the scenario outline is as follows.
1) Count Solanthos Ironpike secretly sends a group of Temple militia
(the players) to Morning, disguised as a group of Traders and escort,
to investigate rumours of Hazia trading and other suspicious
activities by the local militia unit.
2) A group of Tusk Riders lead by a Trickster priest have set up in a
small abandoned farm 10K West of Morning. The Tusk Riders are
routinely raiding the local area to hide illegal trade activities
taking place between various village personalities and the Lunar
Trickster cult.
3) The party will not be able to find enough evidence to lay blame on
the local militia, after all crops burn so easily, and so will have to
content themselves with stopping the trade by breaking up the Tusk
Rider group.
Most of the scenario is intended to be very non combative with plenty
of casual investigation. If the party give away their true purpose
they will probably find their next meal heavily laced with Hazia. The
only real combat in this scenario is the battle with the Tusk Riders
right at the end.
._
/! \ Alternative
/-!-/ Realities Jarec
/ ! \ Games Club e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK
---------------------
From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer)
Subject: Character Generation by Social Class - An idea
Message-ID: <9302081442.AA23590@Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Feb 93 14:41:00 GMT
I have recently been putting a few ideas together for a new character
generation system, although it is not anywhere near complete I thought
it might be of interest to some people to see a rough of the system I
am working on. As always any thoughts or suggestions are most welcome.
_______________________________________________________________________________
At the start of character generation roll to determine the characters
parental social standing, this is a reflection of the parents level of
importance within the local community. Parental social standing is
determined by rolling D100+40. The parents social class can then be
found by looking at the following table:
01-60 Low
61-120 Middle
121+ High
Next determine the parental occupation, this will be the player
characters initial occupation during character generation. Occupation
is determined by rolling D100 + Social Standing, and refering to the
occupation table for the relevant culture:
Example:
Primitive
01-100 Low Class Occupations (i.e. Herder)
101-200 Middle Class Occupations (i.e. Hunter, Warrior)
201-300 High Class Occupations (i.e.Noble, Shaman)
As can be seen from this table it is possible for a middle class
character to have either a low or high class occupation, this reflects
the fact that people can be either climbing or descending the social
ladder.
The character starts with the same occupation as their parent, skills
appropriate to the occupation are expressed as the percentage chance that a
skill increase roll can be taken for each year.
Example:
Hunter skills (per year) : Sneak (55%); Listen (60%); Track (45%)
a primitive hunter has a 55% chance of receiving a skill increase
chance each year, if the character rolled 42% then they could then
proceed to make a skill increase roll for Sneak and if successful gain
the normal gain.
Also at the end of each year of training the character must roll on the social
change table below:
Social Changes table
(D100)
01-10 -1D10SS
11-90 No change
91-00 +1D10SS
The modifiers apply immediately to the characters Social Standing and
reflect changes in peoples attitudes to the character based on good or
bad deeds done during the last year. If the change in SS causes the
character to move into a new social band then the character must
immediately reroll for their occupation and continue character
generation with the new occupation. This forced change in occupation
reflects a character being offered different jobs as peoples attitude
towards them changes.
Example:
Hroth the primitive hunter has a SS of 65, during his third year as a
hunter he fell into a hole whilst not looking where he was going and
frightened off the herd of bison that the hunting party had been
stalking for two hours (the player rolled SS-7, so new SS = 58). After
this the other hunters refused to go hunting with such a clumsy oaf
again so the tribal elders decided that perhaps Hroth would be better
looking after the Goats (Reroll occupation and came out as a Herder
[D100 = 25+58 = 83]). During the next year Hroth fights off a group
of wolves that were menacing the flock and is proclaimed a hero (SS+9,
so new ss = 67), Hroth once again is welcomed by the hunters (Reroll
occupation and came out at 55+67 = 122 "Hunter").
The advantages of this system for character generation is that two
characters with identical stats in identical occupations for an
identical number of years will still end up with a different set of
skills.
The benefits of having a Social Standing characteristic for players
and NPC's is that it provides a good indicator of Player/NPC reactions
(Would the Yelmalio Rune Lord really talk to a Primitive Goat
Herder?). Also the players Social Standing would make a good
additional test for players trying to become Priests etc.. Bonuses or
penalties to a players SS could be awarded by the GM dependant on
deeds done and playing in character.
_______________________________________________________________________________
._
/! \ Alternative
/-!-/ Realities Jarec
/ ! \ Games Club e-mail:SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK
---------------------
From: danm@cpqhou.compaq.com (Dan Mazina)
Subject: RQ Character Generator Source
Message-ID: <9302080832.aa12062@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com>
Date: 8 Feb 93 02:32:17 GMT
Due to the number of responses, here is the source and DOS executable
for a RQ3 Character Generator program. I'm somewhat new to sending
stuff like this on the internet so I don't know if what I did will
work.
This file was first archived using 'tar', then 'compress'ed, then
'uuencode'd. So cut below, uudecode it, uncompress it and then run it
through tar. If anyone actually gets a usuable copy from it I'll be
surprised!
Dan Mazina
[Deleted because of excessive volume
Let's figure out something else - HL]