Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 17:45:23 +0100
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Digest Subscriptions)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Mar 1993
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---------------------
From: brandon@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 15 Mar 1993, part 2 of 2
Message-ID: <9303151802.AA02631@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 15 Mar 93 18:02:52 GMT
With regards to dodge eclipsing parry in general and Great Parry in
particular: Dodging is indeed a great skill to have because you can do
it under any circumstances in which you are mobile, and it completely
avoids the attack. In fact, it has it all over parry of any kind IF
the attacker rolled a normal hit. If he rolled a special hit or
critical hit, only a special or critical dodge works, respectively,
whereas parry always works. Great Parry is a 3-pointer beacuse it will
stop anything on a successful parry roll, even a critical hit from a
great troll or the like (although you do get knocked!)
Brandon Brylawski
---------------------
From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: The Seven Mothers
Message-ID: <9303151839.AA05819@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 15 Mar 93 02:39:43 GMT
carlf@Panix.Com writes:
> mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) writes:
> >Telio Nori is Chalana Arroy healed of her need to heal everyone.
> >
>
> Close, but Teelo Norri is the equivalent of Flesh Man. Deezola is
> the "healed" Chalana Arroy
Thanks, my memory glitched.
> (the idea of healing the Healer is
> problematic).
Cured or fixed might be better terms. We have used healing because it
implies strongly that there was something wrong that the Lunars have
made better. Better for propaganda.
Rob Mace
---------------------
From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re: simplified monster descriptions
Message-ID: <9303152005.AA06595@lum.asd.sgi.com>
Date: 15 Mar 93 04:05:40 GMT
Loren Miller writes:
> (Stuff on how hard it is to generate full monster descriptions deleted.)
>
> I'd like to contrast RQ, for a moment, with Chivalry and Sorcery, which
> came out about the same time as RQ. Even though I thought C&S was too
> complex to run for long they did do one thing extraordinarily well. The
> C&S monster descriptions included several full sets of stats for
> monsters of different levels of ability, but each set of stats was
> immediately usable in the game. All computations were already performed.
> The C&S GM could simply copy down the relevant stats from the book and
> run an encounter on the fly.
RQ has and might still have the same thing. In RQ2 we there was the
foes book. This had pregenerated stats for all the RQ2 monsters and
races. There were also some earlier and smaller books that had a few
races each. In RQ3 the Games Workshop Hardbound Monsters book had a
few examples of each race/monster. I believe that Monster Coliseum
also did this, but I never bought it.
> I'd like to find a method to describe monsters that AH can use in the
> RQ4 bestiaries that is more GM friendly than the PC-style descriptions
> that we have instead. I'd like something that is closer to what C&S did
> twelve years ago. Has anybody else written such a system? If you don't
> think this is a problem how do you get around it?
Back in college one of the players wrote up a RQ2 monster/character
generator. I we found it useful then but more recently I just wing
it. When you look at the info there is just not that much that one
need to know to run a combat.
Here is all I generally worry about.
Attack
Strike Rank
Parry or Dodge(RQ3)
Defense(RQ2)
Hit Points
There is no reason that you must go through all the calculation to
determine these. If you have been playing RQ for a while, you can
generally just pick reasonable values for these.
Other things I determine as necessary. Or because I know that it will
likely be needed. For example I would always predicide a pow for a
priest or rune lord opponent. However for others I would generally
determine it on the fly. I would roll the pow and then addjust it
based on what the NPC was and what I had rolled. Spells I also do on
the fly. For example if the NPCs wanted to dispell a light wall put
up by players I would at the time determine if they had a 4 point
dispell by assigning a percentage chance based on who they were and
rolling some dice.
This type of procedure cuts down a lot on record keeping but one
probably needs to have been playing RQ for years to feel comfortable
with it.
Rob Mace
---------------------
From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: Rune Listing
Message-ID: <199303152053.AA09009@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 15 Mar 93 20:53:34 GMT
No one seems to have responded yet, so here's my updated list that I
use in my campaign. It may be familiar to some; I posted it a few
months back to rec.games.frp.
Gloranthan Rune Cross Reference List.
Format: First is given the name of the Rune. Next is either an ASCII
depiction (if possible) or a description of the Rune's appearance.
Next are the deities/entities that hold the rune; the owner or source
first and then all other deities which have the Rune, in alphabetic
order.
ELEMENTAL RUNES
Darkness: (A filled circle)
Subere, Annilla (the Blue Moon), Aranea, Argan Argar,
Gorakiki, Kygor Litor, Mallia, Mee Vorala, Thanatar,
Vivamort, Wachaza, Xentha, Xiola Umbar, Zorak Zoran
Water: ~~ (Two identical sawtooth lines going, at +-45 degrees, up
~~ three times and down twice, from left to right)
Magasta, Annila, Dormal, Triolina, Tsankth, Wachaza,
Ygg (see Note #1)
Earth: [] (A square, either filled for the malevolent aspect, or
unfilled for the benevolent aspect)
Ernalda, Aldrya, Asrelia, Barbeester Gor, Bloody Tusk,
Dendara, Gorgorma, Maran Gor, Mostal, Ty Kora Tek, Voria
Fire/Sky: (.) (A Circle with a dot in the center)
Yelm, Golden Bow, Hippoi
Air/Storm: @ (A spiral turning clockwise from center to outside)
Orlanth, Gargath, Kolat, Umath, Urox (Storm Bull), Valind,
Ygg (see Note #1)
Moon: (|) (A circle divided in half by a vertical line)
Red Goddess, Annilla, Crimson Bat, Etyries, Seven Mothers
FORM RUNES
Dragon: XX (A diamond with lines crossing in the center at +- 45 degrees)
XX Dragons??, Godunya, Path of Immanent Mastery
Dragonewt: (A equilateral triangle crossed by a horizontal line)
Dragonewts???
Plant: o (A stylized clover)
o|o Flamal, Aldrya, Grain Goddesses, Mee Vorala
|
Beast: (An inverted equilateral triangle with lines from each vertex
meeting at the center)
Hykim & Mikyh, Aranea, Bagog, Bloody Tusk, Eiritha, Gorakiki,
Urox, Waha
Man: o (A stylized stickman with a semicircle for legs)
-|- Daka Fal (Ancestor Worship), Path of Immanent Mastery,
( ) Kygor Litor, Waha
Spirit: <> (A diamond with the bottom vertex extended to make an X)
/\ Horned Man, Daka Fal, Thed
Chaos: `o' (A filled circle with horns)
Primal Chaos, Bagog, Cacodemon, Crimson Bat, Krarsht, Gbaji
(Nysalor), Pocharngo the Mutator, Red Goddess, Thanatar,
Thed, Vivamort
CONDITION RUNES
Mastery: ||| (An E turned sideways)
--- Arachne Solara, Argan Argar, Godunya, Nysalor (Gbaji),
Orlanth, Xentha
Magic: |\ (An angular, Runic R)
|/ Arachne Solara, Arkat, Horned Man, Invisible God, Subere
|\
Infinity: oo (An infinity symbol)
Arachne Solara, Flamal, Invisible God, Uleria
Law: /\ (An equilateral triangle)
-- Invisible God, Lhankor Mhy, Mostal
POWER RUNES
Harmony: ||| Chalana Arroy, Argan Argar, Donandar, Ernalda, Grain
Goddesses, Hunter Gods, Issaries, Xiola Umbar
Disorder: )( (Two semicircles crossing each other)
Bolongo, Cacodemon, Eurmal, Gargath, Lodril, Maran Gor,
Zorak Zoran
Fertility: X (An hourglass)
Uleria, Aldrya, Asrelia, Chalana Arroy, Eiritha, Ernalda, Red
Goddess, Seven Mothers, Triolina, Voria, Xiola Umbar, Yelm
Death: + (A Latin Cross)
Humakt, Barbeester Gor, Bloody Tusk, Cacodemon, Crimson Bat,
Gargath, Hunter Gods, Magasta, Malia, Maran Gor, Pharoah,
Seven Mothers, Thanatar, Tsankth, Ty Kora Tek, Urox, Wachaza,
Waha, Yelm, Ygg, Zorak Zoran (see Note #1)
Stasis: (A top semicircle, the bottom closed with a horizontal line)
Mostal
Movement: (Three semicircles, the top one verticle and open to the left,
and the other two made by rotating it 120 and 240 degrees
around it's bottem point, all joined at the point of rotation)
Mastakos, Etyries, Eurmal, Issaries, Lokarnos, Magasta,
Orlanth, Pocharngo
Truth: Y Dayzatar, Humakt, Lhankor Mhy, Thanatar, Yelmalio
Illusion: . Eurmal, Black Sun, Donandar
. .
Luck: ___ (Owner not listed), Asrelai, Pharoah (see Note #1)
/ \
/ \
Fate: * (Owner not listed) Aranea, Ty Kora Tek
OTHER RUNES
Trade: _|_|_Two vertical lines crossed by a horizontal line)
| | Issaries, Argan Argar, Dormal, Etyries
Unknown??:/|\ (An upward pointing arrow)
| (Owner not listed), Pamalt. See note 2.
Heat: (o) (A circle within a circle)
(Owner not listed), Lodril
Light: ( ) (A circle)
(Owner not listed), Dendara, Lokarnos, Nysalor (Gbaji),
Yelmalio
Cold: (A filled circle with an unfilled circle inside it)
Himile, Valind, Ygg (see Note #1)
Shadow: (A filled circle with a horizontal line across it)
(Owner not listed), Black Sun, Gorgorma, Moorgarki
Hunger: (A sideways hourglass with a vertical line crossing it's
center, looking like a double bitted axe)
(Owner not listed) Krarsht, Vivamort. See note 3.
Ice: (A filled diamond)
(No owner or holders listed)
NOTE 1: Some of these are my own speculation as to Runes held by
certain deities. This includes those of Ygg (Water, Storm,
Death and Cold, for a Pirate God who's the son of Valind)
and of the Pharoah (Luck and Death).
NOTE 2: This Rune was shown as one of Pamalt's in Gods of Glorantha.
Nowhere else (that I know) has it ever been shown, named,
or described.
NOTE 3: This Rune was called Undead in RQ2's _Cults Of Terror_, but
has been renamed (thanks to David Cake).
--
Boris Mikey, aka |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive
Maurice Beyke | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if
mabeyke@ingr.com | you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire."
Intergraph doesn't want Nietzsche
my opinions.
---------------------
From: etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se (Allan Murphy)
Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 15 Mar 1993, part 2 of 2
Message-ID: <9303160840.AA18086@aachen.ericsson.se>
Date: 16 Mar 93 10:40:21 GMT
STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham | GDS Solutions) writes:
>
> Having developed a character with high dodge and moderate armour, the dodge
> skill even with RQ3-ENC value subtracted from the raw skill%, seems to be
> highly cost-effective compared with shield parry because:-
>
> You can't drop it
> It doesn't weigh anything
> It doesn't occupy that other hand
> You don't take *any* damage when you succeed
> You don't take *any* knockback either
>
> Having 60%+ in poleaxe and effective-dodge is an ungodly combination (read, I
> was asked politely to refrain). By way of contrast Great Parry spell only
> gives you the fourth of these five benefits, and that for the outlay of 3
> points of POW.
>
I'm sorry, Steve, but I don't buy this view of dodge. The simple
reason for my scepticism is that just when you need a dodge the most,
it is suddenly much harder to make it, since you need a special dodge
to dodge a special hit, and a critical dodge to dodge a critical hit.
Eg:
Greenleaf the elven hero is locked in combat with Skullgnaw the troll
berzerk. Greenleaf has a dodge of 85%. After 10 rounds of combat,
Greenleaf has not been injured at all, and he has managed to inflict
some damage on his troll enemy, and its looking as if against all odds
the plucky elf will defeat his foul opponent. But woops, Skullgnaw
gets a critical with his troll maul... All of a sudden, Greenleaf
needs 4 (or maybe 5 ) % to basically save his life. Just when he
desparately needs a dodge to take no damage, its suddenly unlikely to
happen.
Personally, I think the above reasoning balances out the advantages
Steve has listed. Ok, on normal attacks, all of Steve's advantages
hold, but as soon as you have to dodge a critical or special, things
are suddenly much more serious.
Allan.
--
Allan J. Murphy / \ "The whole wide world...an endless
\ / universe. Yet we keep looking
etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se / \ through the eyeglass in reverse...."
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham | GDS Solutions)
Subject: Various threads - Mon 15 & Rune Sorcery
Message-ID: <01GVUUSHZ242001E80@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 15 Mar 93 17:34:28 GMT
NPCs
====
>> They are defined in the kind of detail that a player would
>> want to know. The problem with this is that the GM often
>> doesn't need this level of detail
While this could be resolved by re-issuing "Foes" or "Trolls &
Trollkin", the easy way is to fudge it. For commonly encountered
opponents (e.g. Trolls) write down 2 or three types in advance & just
clone them. Uniques like dragons really need the full
personalisation. And in tight spots one can just roll the %s and say
"that looks like a hit"; and otherwise work on a need to know basis.
Just because the characters have more than AC, level & hit-points
doesn't mean you need to know much more about the cannon fodder.
Dart Wars
=========
I get the impression that these started as assassinations carried out
during javelin hurling athlectics events - the assassin merely
"misses" the hurling range, and hits the noble who he has been
employed to remove; and continued under this euphemism thereafter.
Sorcery
=======
>> I considered 5% rather than 10% -- it seemed to fit in
>> better with the basic mechanics of RuneQuest -- but it
>> simply made Sorcerers too powerful.
One could halve all benefits, I suppose (5% gets 1D3/2 damage or 1/2
point damage - odd half points are rolled as D2-1; half a D3 is +1
point
>> Is it necessary to differentiate Earth and Stone at all?
Stone is an aspect of the Stasis Rune.
>> Light might correspond to the Lunar Rune
What about other sub-elemental runes (Heat, Cold, Ice, Dust, Shadow)?
>> The simplest Shapes are Bolts, Spheres, and Walls.
Sounds a bit like that system, whereof it is deemed not passing to
speak.
>> every ten percent skill in the Duration Rune
If we have to invent new runes, how about Time and Space, which are
rather more in keeping with the other abstractions, rather than
game-mechanic names like Duration and Range
>> Since Sorcery is a human skill rather than a
>> spiritual/Divine ability, it seems to me that it should
>> be liable to spectacular human error.
Good point! But in all fairness, criticals also?
>> Can't I find a better name than "Casting"?
How about "Spell" for impromptu, and "Formula" for pre-designed
spellcasting?
= = =
My own vague ideas along these lines borrowed from an unusual
astrologically based magic system I played under once. That had ten
spheres of spell, one for each planet (Sun, Moon, and Mercury-Pluto).
Each sphere contained a list of a dozen or so relevant qualities - so
we had spells like Justice (Jupiter), Vanity (Venus), Change (Uranus),
Age (Saturn), Fire (Sun). When a spell was invoked, it would have
effects based on GM adjudication, and the intensity of casting.
Interesting spells could be built from the various building blocks
(e.g. Telekinesis = Travel+Communication+Strength)
Applying it to the Runes, with the intent "no new Runes", each
character would have an affinity to runes (skill? "levels of
mastery"?), and be able to apply the qualities of the Runes
appropriately. In this case, Mobility would give fleet movement,
perhaps flight or teleportation at higher mastery; and in combinations
would give range to spells. Stasis would seem likely to control
duration.
Notice that flight effects could also be gained through Storm
(becoming one with the winds), or Sky (distance from Earth).
---------------------
From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
Subject: bits and pieces
Message-ID: <199303161422.AA08905@sun.Panix.Com>
Date: 16 Mar 93 04:22:30 GMT
mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) writes:
>In the campaign(Steve Maurer's) in which I play the characters were hired
>to stop a Dart War in Bicky. We were not too successful and eventually
>open hostilities broke out. I believe that some of the others on this
>list were involved in a campaign that was also in Bicky at the time and
>the events from the two sort of cross fertalized with out the knowledge
>of the players at the time.
You were trying to *stop* the Dart War? We were convinced you were
*behind* the Dart War!
tsl@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask) writes:
>Regarding RQ4 sorcery - I'd like to see some form of Rune based system
>along the lines described recently or as described by Steve Maurer in
>the old RQ digest. I'd prefer that the old RQ3 system be scrapped or
>be restricted to Non-Gloranthan settings. IMHO it just don't fit in
>a Glorathan context.
>
>Just my $0.02
Point: Greg Stafford disagrees about RQ3 sorcery, and he's...well,
he's Glorantha. If he says it fits, it fits. Don't forget, the West
was the first part of Glorantha Greg worked on.
STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham | GDS Solutions) writes:
[I don't know who he's citing with ">>"]
>> I didn't like having to roll POW X 5 to cast a spell, too prejudiced
>> against lo POW characters.
>Another of my dislikes, too, despite it seeming logical that the spritually
>endowed are better at magic.
The RQ4 project asked about this, and Greg Stafford basically said:
"Keep the die roll". So it's there, period.
>Having developed a character with high dodge and moderate armour, the dodge
>skill even with RQ3-ENC value subtracted from the raw skill%, seems to be
>highly cost-effective compared with shield parry because:-
> You can't drop it
> It doesn't weigh anything
> It doesn't occupy that other hand
> You don't take *any* damage when you succeed
> You don't take *any* knockback either
>
...and if you succeed with shield parry, you might survive even if
your opponent criticals. If you succeed with shield parry and your
opponent impales, you can die.
Carl