Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 17:15:08 +0200 From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 09 Apr 1993 This digest was generated automatically. You may find messages that should not belong here, like subscription requests, etc. Sorry. You will of course send such requests to RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. All mail sent to RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM will automatically be included in a next issue. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. -Henk Langeveld -- Send Submissions to:Enquiries to: The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM --------------------- From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox) Subject: RE: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Apr 1993 Message-ID: <9304081537.AA17842@Sun.COM> Date: 8 Apr 93 15:36:00 GMT >Army sizes >========== >The likeliest source of reasonable comparisons would probably be from ancient >history, rather than Napoleonic or the 30 Years War [For all the impact of >magic as technology, the societies of Glorantha in c1600STdon't seem have the >social structures (such as nation states with strong central governments) >necessary for a fair comparison with Europe even c1600AD.] I don't have firm >figures for Persia, which was probably much of a size with the Lunar Empire >(but ~100,000 for Xerxes' march upon Greece rings a bell). The Roman Legion >was 6000 men plus auxilaries, the there were a couple of dozen of these at the >height of the Empire - though at that time it would have been about twice the >size of the Lunar Empire c1600ST, maybe more - and an operating detachment >would be from 1-3 legions. >The effectiveness of a force goes roughly as the square of the number of men. Surely the Lunar Empire counts as a strong central government? But, yes point taken. I quoted those numbers partly to give an idea of how big armies COULD be, and also 'cos I know more about that era than earlier ones! I was under the impression though that the Persians were the first to evolve a bureaucracy and civil service - in fact their entire government was very sophisticated. I'm not so sure about the effectiveness of a force being proportional to the square of the number of troops, after all, there must be a tail off when a force starts to get so large that its command and control becomes ineffective. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Buckley ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk Subject: Ploughshares Message-ID: <9304081633.AA15697@deca.aber.ac.uk> Date: 8 Apr 93 18:33:40 GMT Rather than using the overly powerful Rune Magics for elementals (Sorry, DIVINE magic, I must update my vocab) how about a simple use of Bladesharp 4 on the blade of the plough....? Inspiration for this idea came from Mark Plowman, I can't take the credit myself....while digging after a vampire, he suggested it. As for army sizes, I'm not sure, but doesn't it give Gloranthan army sizes, or at least an impression of them, in "The Cradle" in the Pavis sourcebook? Having run the adventure a couple of years ago now, I can't remember, but I'll dig around and see what I can find. As for cults making reappearances, I was pleased to see the more extensive write-ups of cults in River of Cradles, as opposed to the snippets of information available in GoG. Somehow that supplement just didn't satisfy. Come to think of it, I need to look up army sizes fairly rapidly. After Easter comes the liberation of Jonstown in my campaign (second time it has been liberated). I'll send the cult details of Cernein in on the 12th or thereabouts. Till then. Stephen Hunt Better Red Than Dead --------------------- From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk Subject: Chaos Features Message-ID: <9304081638.AA16219@deca.aber.ac.uk> Date: 8 Apr 93 18:38:37 GMT Chaos features....as another note. In my campaign, there have been several examples of questing to rid oneself of chaos features, usually by NPCs. Also, it has to be said, my players have never suffered from chaos features themselves. They've always been far too cautious when approaching chaos nests. Usually disease gets them first anyway. However, I'm sure the disposal of chaos features could be attained by special quests (I will not say Heroquests, because that is OTT), and I would be prepared to accept Divine Intervention as a possibility (although perhaps at a reduced chance of success) Off again Stephen Hunt Better Red Than Dead. .# --------------------- From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Battle Losses, Yelmalians Message-ID: <9304081710.AA02670@Sun.COM> Date: 8 Apr 93 17:13:11 GMT Re: Military Campaigns The designer's notes to "The Peloponnesian War" have average loss percentages for hoplite battles. They estimate the victor consistently loses 5% of his troops. The average loss for the defeated side was 14%, but this had a much wider variation. In Staffordian history we have examples of the entire losing army being destroyed and their souls eaten. Eating souls, however, is a crime against humanity; it may bring United Nations intervention. They'll probably give sanctions more time, though. Re: The Yelmalians in 877ST I think the whole Elmal/Yelmalio change was a mistake on Greg Stafford's part. Imagine the howls of outrage from players if a Gamemaster tried to make such a change in a long running campaign. Authors have to maintain internal consistency if we are to maintain a suspension of disbelief. If you want to salvage as must consistency as possible, assume that Yelmalians did come to Pavis in 877. Perhaps some Elmal worshipers mucked about with their god earlier. This would arouse the ire of their neighbors, giving them an incentive to move to Sun County. Later, when the Lunars approached, the rest of the Elmali chicken out, and cut their storm connections. Jalk's book is hardly the most reliable of sources, so one could justify such an extrapolation. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Sabalauskas-Marks@slough.mit.edu --------------------------- "There are three main causes that dispose men to madness: love, ambition, and the study of currency problems." Walter Leaf ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: ROBERTSON@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson, SC1-5, x52936) Subject: Armies in Glorantha, a study Message-ID: <7F1911ED800041ED@delphi.intel.com> Date: 8 Apr 93 18:14:00 GMT Regarding the question of armies in Glorantha: Having the time at home to look at old products, here is the muster of Sartar from the game Dragon Pass, (I have, but did not catagorize, 2nd Ed. White Bear Red Moon). Heavy units are non-missile users, Light units are missilers (and generally smaller and faster) Sartar Forces ============= City militia: 6 Heavy Foot, 3 Light Foot (ducks), 6 Heavy Horse Free Army: 5 Heavy Foot (incl. 1 Telmori Foot), 9 Heavy Horse, 1 Light Horse (Pavis Royal Guard) Magical union: 4 Foot, 4 Mounted, 1 Wasp Riders, 1 Wind Children, 1 Storm Walkers Special Units: Harrek, Argrath, Gunda, 2 Dragontooth Runners Total Units: 41 "normal" military units Lunars: ======= Heartland Corps: 4 Heavy Foot, 4 Light foot, 6 Heavy Horse Cavalry Corp: 9 Heavy Horse, 4 light Horse Native Furthest: 7 heavy Foot, 3 Heavy Horse Imperial Bodyguard: 3 Heavy foot, 3 Heavy Horse Magical College: 5 foot, 4 Horse, 2 Full Moon Corps, 1 Crater Makers, Crimson Bat Special Units: Jar-eel, Beatpot, Red Emperor Allies ====== Grazelanders: 4 Heavy Horse, 4 Light Horse, 1 Golden Bow (magic 0 LH), 4 herds, Feathered Horse Queen Sun Dome Temple: 3 Units of pikemen Dragonewts: 5 Crested (Scout) Foot, 3 Crested (scout) Cav., 5 beaked (Warrior) Cav, 3 Tailed Priest (Noble) foot, Inhuman King Trolls: 3 Great Troll, 2 Trollkin, Cragspider Tusk Riders: 5 Unfortunately, I bought one of the first copies of the game, and got the second counter sheet for Nomad Gods instead of the rest of the Allies. (One of these days I need to see if there are any sheet B's lying around...) The Sartar elements can be considered the total fighting force of the Kingdom. The Lunars are merely part of the total Imperial Army. In WF7 Greg talks about the Magical regiments in White Bear Red Moon, the early verion of DP, indicating that units are between 500 and 2,000 men (In the 2nd edition of WBRM each unit is said to be approx. 500). He then goes on to show an example of a Sartarite Magical unit, the Eaglebrown Warlocks (a Attack 4, Magic 4, Move 5, Range 5 mounted regiment) The Warlocks have 525 Guards, and 58 priests. At the low end, 500 troopers per unit, the Sartar muster comes to about 20,500 men/women/whatevers. At the high end, 2000 troopers, the muster is about 82,000. In KOS, Jalk's Book has an estimation of the fighting strength of the Colymar tribe (p. 233). In the estimation, the town of Clearwine is listed at 650 adults and 900 children. The total tribe is esitmated at 6,500 adults. 3,250 are men, 85% of which can muster out. (2,800 men). The estimation guesses that 90% are Fyrdmen (lightly armed and armored), the remainder are elites (Housecarls and Thanes). Looking at the tables in Glorantha, Genertala, we see that characters from the Barbarian Belt have a 89% to be in the 'carl' class, with 11% in the Thane/Housecarl class (Noble, Priest, Warrior), matching the estimation pretty closely. Sartar is listed on p 23 as having a total of 180,00 Human adults. Using the Estimation, about 76,500 warriors can be mustered, 7,650 of which are heavily armed and armored. This would seriously disrupt society, but when you are being invaded... I hope this has been of service, Roderick Robertson Robertson@delphi.intel.com --------------------- From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink) Subject: Rabbit fever and more Message-ID: <199304081746.AA25102@sun.Panix.Com> Date: 8 Apr 93 09:46:00 GMT STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham) writes: >ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow) asks >> The Praxians live off their animals - does this mean >> they eat no vegetables at all?> > >In this world, such behaviour would lead to the "rabbit fever" >experienced by some hunters and trappers in the Old West : our >metabolism isn't geared to a carbohydrate free diet. Given the >Waha compromise, it is possible that the Praxian nomads may be >able to subsist on the blood, flesh and milk of their beasts alone >- however we do know that the skullbush is a useful source of >edibles for the Praxians. [I've never been sure which Earth >culture the Praxians are closest to - are they Mongols, Plain >Indians, or perhaps more like the Masai feeders on blood & milk?] Um, no. Rabbit fever is caused by a diet of *lean* meat only - if you eat meat from fattier animals than rabbits, and include some organ meats (especially liver) you can live entirely on animal products indefinitely. Check out the lifestyle of Eskimos during the winter. Sandy Petersen once compared the Praxians to the Amerinds in my presence - the Plains Indians, to be more exact. The Mongols compare to the Pent nomads. I don't know of a Maasai equivalent off the top of my head. About the humans vs. Elder races thing - everyone is using what I call the "Tolkien Assumption" - that is, that humans will triumph and eventually wipe out the other intelligent species. While the future history in _King of Sartar_ indicates that this may be true, as of the early 1600s (the time of most campaigns) it is by no means inevitable. The elves are about to engage in major conquest in both Genertela and Pamaltela, the Dwarfs are in no danger from any possible combination of human states, and the return of Arkat will certainly strengthen the troll position. The advantage humans have as of 1621 is just that the Elder Races spend all their time fighting *each*other*, and the humans are left relatively alone. Carl Fink carlf@panix.com C.FINK4(GEnie) --------------------- From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto) Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Apr 1993 Message-ID: <9304081855.AA23914@hpcc90.corp.hp.com> Date: 8 Apr 93 18:55:20 GMT > From: markg@engrg.uwo.ca (Mark Gagnon) > Subject: Cults of Prax, Cults of Terror > > A question for RQ3 players: Has anyone ever had a Stormbull player contract > a nasty case of Chaos Feature? How would you referee it? Well, considering that every other Storm Bull would be able to Sense Chaos on the PC, if I were playing the character, I'd have him/her walk to the nearest SB temple and ask to be killed. Jeff --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Gidday from MOB! Message-ID: <01GWT181MWJ09FQ10S@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 9 Apr 93 22:58:19 GMT Gidday Everyone on RQ Daily Mail, Henk asked me to announce myself, so here I am! I'm one of the editors of TALES OF THE REACHING MOON, along with David Hall and Steve Thomas. At the moment I'm working on issue #11, the Pamaltela Special, and am seeking submissions for it. Anyone interested can e-mail me, or snail mail me at: Michael O'Brien 2/33 Carween Ave. MITCHAM, 3132 Victoria, Australia. I can be phoned or faxed on +61-3-874-1923. (If you want to fax me, you've gotta phone me first so I can plug it in!) Also, remember that when its daytime where you are, it might be the middle of the night here!) The list of contents for issue #11 is taking shape. We will be featuring the Cult of Pamalt, new version, and one or more areas from The Pamaltela Book, the unpublished companion to Chaosium/AH's Genertela Book in WoG. I am especially keen to receive scenario/cameo submissions to this issue, as this is where we are particularly light on (in fact we don't have any yet!) LUNAR BOOK You may or may not know that Greg Stafford is compiling a companion volume to KING OF SARTAR, but with a Lunar angle. I am assisting in this project and am writing about the Red Emperor. I would be interested to see anyone's comments or musings on Big Red. Writing Gloranthan material for Greg is a daunting prospect as you could well imagine! Cheers from the Land Down Under, MOB