Date: Tue, 20 Apr 93 17:15:30 +0200 From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: The RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 20 Apr 1993 This digest was generated automatically. You may find messages that should not belong here, like subscription requests, etc. Sorry. You will of course send such requests to RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. All mail sent to RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM will automatically be included in a next issue. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. -Henk Langeveld -- Send Submissions to:Enquiries to: The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM --------------------- From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk Subject: Bits 'n Pieces Message-ID: <9304191356.AA29169@deca.aber.ac.uk> Date: 19 Apr 93 15:56:56 GMT In reply to Rog, about RQ2 and the prevalence of Glorantha in the starting gear. The RQ2 BOXED SET (I still love boxed sets, better yet the boxed sets with rulebooks inside that have a proper cover) contained the rulebook, Apple Lane, Fangs and An Introduction to Roleplaying (possibly the best introduction ever written, and it would be nice to make a case for THAT still being in print). The basic rulebook not only included maps of Glorantha, Dragon Pass and Prax, but also had the cults of Black Fang and Orlanth in it. In addition to this, there were the ever-present examples in the saga of Rurik the Restless, which also served to illuminate Glorantha. The book took many opportunities to demonstrate the way in which Glorantha worked. In addition to this, we had Apple Lane sat right next to the rulebook, and in this we had adventures set in Sartar, plus the short Tribal Initiation. Comparing this amount of detail of the world to the amount of detail that was made available on Glorantha in RQ3....I know which I prefer. Plus, you say Pavis was a very shoddy piece of work. I disagree (personal opinion of course), and would say that The Cradle adventure is perhaps one of the best adventures ever written, and only one of the party died in that, without any GM fudging....it just takes intelligent play. As for Plunder, I never used it to randomly generate treasure located on a random encounter. That is stupid. I did use it to base occasional adventures around, by taking a magical object (not necessarily a major one) and then writing the adventure around the existence of that item. A useful source. As for your list of what is good, how about adding to that Griffin Mountain, Runemasters, and, for that matter, Thieves World, which is still available....? Sorry to be seeming picky, it's not intended personally. As for where the best surf in Glorantha is, have a word with some friendly water elementals, or alternatively, the fabled Stoneshell of Snakepipe Hollow. Then again, maybe venturing into Snakepipe Hollow isn't the best idea in the world. I commented before about the use of Ploughsharp 4......I had forgotten about RQ3 having five minute limits on battle magic. I operate on a fifteen minute duration......on that basis, 16 points of battle magic for an hour's worth of ploughsharp seemed to have some credibility (no-one said it all had to be cast by one person). Of course, I'd imagine the real problem with it all would be the fact that the farmer would have to spend around 5000L in order to learn the spell. Not many farmers would muster that much spare cash, I would have thought.t Alternatively, a horse and some good, honest to god hard work may be the general idea........ Lastly, I just want to make clear that I agree with Adam to the extent that there does seem, in some cases, a disproportionate amount of errata around for some products. However, my main gripe is the availability of this errata. In all honesty, how many people have access to E-mail networks and/or magazines that would be prepared to publish this errata. While being happier to see the errata address mentioned in River of Cradles, surely the address to send off to for errata on a particular product should be located in that product itself, rather than having to buy another product to find that address. All AH products have a response card, do they not? Well, why not simply have on that card a comment to the effect that if you put your address on the card and tick a box saying you wish the errata despatched to you, then it will be done as soon as t the errata has been compiled? Anyway, this is getting way too long, I'll disappear off. Stephen M Hunt Better Red Than Dead --------------------- From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow) Subject: Surfing Glorantha Message-ID: <22893.9304191412@piglet.insignia.co.uk> Date: 19 Apr 93 07:22:34 GMT Mail*Link(r) SMTP Surfing Glorantha "Skyfall Girls" - The Beach Trolls - 1621 Well east shore trolls are hip, I really love them rags they wear. And the southern trolls with the way they belch Drive us crazy while we're down there. The north west trollkin warriors Really make us feel up tight. And the northern trolls, with their wooly fur Are nasty in a fight. I've been all round this great big world.... etc --------------------- From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton Biochemistry) Subject: Stormbulls & Choas features// Tricksters, Chaos and illumination Message-ID: <9304191544.AA13998@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za> Date: 19 Apr 93 17:44:38 GMT I'm sorry to have taken so long to reply to this thread but my mailing system has been on the fritz. Just a few thoughts on the Stormbull, chaos features debate: 1. According to GOG "any creature possesing a chaotic feature is automatically an initiate of Primal Chaos." This I thing would rather make it impossible for the poor Storm Bull to make any sort of reparation/repair, especially as it then says "Initiation is permanent: even if the chaos feature is someday lost, there is no way to remove the chaos taint." I think the poor dude has had it 8^(, if he doesn't go out in a blaze of glory or suicide then I'm sure the cult Spirits of Reprisal will have a little to say to someone who becomes initiated into the source of all that they most hate! 2. An interesting thought, would one be able to cast face choas on the stormbull (or indeed anyone) who had inadvertantly gained a chaos feature? If so what would the effect be - face chaos is designed to make a person stand his ground and fight any chaotic foe, even if he would ordinarily have run. Would thisgive the affected person the courage/desire to suicide when he realised that he was that chaotic? _________________________________________________________________ Now to start (Hopefully) a completely new thread. I am interested in the relationship between Trickster's and chaos. I know that Eurmal as one of the Lightbringers was opposed to chaos but unless all tricksters are aspects of a single God (which I feel is unlikely due to the presence and subsequent "disappearence" of Ratslaff from the Celestial court while Eurmal is also around). Also Trickster cults are pretty well ubiquitous. Against this is of course is the fact that the trickster "temples" work in unofficial harmony. But I think that we can safely say that there are many tricksters rather that a single trickster with many aspects. But this does not really affect the main question. i.e. Could there be a trickster with choas rune assosiation? In GOG the runic assosiation "varies", I assume the Disorder rune and Illusion rune would predominate, but many others are also appropriate such as Hunger for the glutton aspect, death for the murderer aspect, fire for the firebringer aspect, and many others...... Thus I would see no problem for there to be a trickster cult with choas assosiations. What do other people think? And, more interestingly, what form would such a cult take? I have a few ideas, but I am most interested in what others think ;-) On a related note regarding tricksters and illumination, would it be easier or harder for a trickster to become illuminated? Seeing as Tricksters already look at life from a different viewpoint to normal people it would appear easier, but as they are extremely self-absorbed and shallow would they be able to draw the deep insights required for illumination? Yet another paradox regarding tricksters, I love them ;-} Just think a choatic, illuminated trickster (shudder) Ah well, that was longer that I first thought - thank you for bearing with me. Yak A Trickster still looking for that Blood to Beer spell! --------------------- From: wroberts@magnusug.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson) Subject: I agree! Message-ID: Date: 19 Apr 93 10:00:56 GMT Tom Zunder recently typed his little fingers off! And instead of posting what I agree with it's easier (and shorter) to post what I don't agree with. >DI in Battle: Gods must get taxed in battles and not be able to help >everyone, ie reduced DI for the rank and file. I really wonder if they're taxed or not. After all, as a lowly mortal, you sacrifice a big part of your essence or atman for dinine assistance. Additionally, the gods live without time, so would they really notice that they're getting many calls at the same time? I don't think so. Also, who is Steve Maurer? And where can I find his Lunar campaign basics? -Bill --------------------- From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall) Subject: Revenants Message-ID: <930419194809_100116.2616_BHB68-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 19 Apr 93 19:48:10 GMT Hey! I've just discovered that I've got some errata for Sun County, shall I go ahead and post them on the Digest? I've got some excellent Sun County Writer's Notes as well... --------------------- From: kenrolston@aol.com Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Apr 1993 Message-ID: <9304191643.tn36581@aol.com> Date: 19 Apr 93 20:43:23 GMT > In response to Adam (awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk) > Pardon me, Adam, if I paraphrase your criticisms: 1. Errors are a terrible thing, and an unreasonable burden upon the paying customer. Even professional game designers rarely have a clear sense of what goes into publishing game. Why should fans have any clearer a sense? The only way to get a concrete sense of how games are published is to design one, then start a company to publish and distribute it. I do not recommend this, and don't think the experience is particular pleasant or enlightening. One thing I've learned as a professional is that everything has a price. Take for a moment the idea of your being willing to wait an extra two weeks for a quality product. Ignore for the moment that this begs the questions of whether 2 weeks significantly affects the quality of the product, and whether the current crop of RQ supplements are quality. If AH published four supplements a year, that is an additional eight weeks delay before our products start making money for us. That means we have to add 1/6 to the current prices we charge for the books, since we have to pay everyone during those eight weeks. The current system of desperate blindtest and playtests does catch most of the errors. It never catches all of them, and I am sick at heart for each error that gets past ... basically because I can never understand how i could possibly miss catching errors. It is a human problem, that we make errors, but it still bothers me. I bless the labors of my best testers -- Oliver Jovanovic and his game group, Mike Dawson, and Stephen Martin -- for the splendor of their labors. I think it is great that Mike O'Brien publishes and distributes errata for Sun County. Not all of it is strictly errata so much as clarification and catching typos and odd omissions, but I'd like to see more post-publication commentaries by authors in the Digest and Tales of the Reaching Moon. I admire Steve Jackson Games and its policy of posting errata to the network bulletin boards. I'd like to institute a similar policy -- but at present I can barely keep up with our production schedule, and am two months behind in correspondence. 2. RQII is swell, and should be reprinted. (Echoes also heard from various others.) I once thought it would be a good idea to reprint RQII. Unfortunately, you'd have to reprint, at a minimum, the rulebook and three of the best supplements (say, Pavis, Borderlands, Griffin Mt.) to make it worthwhile to a new buyer. And that would replace our entire RQIII release schedule for a year. And who would buy it? The guys who've got it already? The new buyers just waiting for the perfect new FRP system? It just makes no economic sense. I also argue that it makes no aesthetic sense, though i have some sympathy with old-timers who love RQII. My home campaign uses RQIII by the book, since we are a playtest center, but the other RQ campaign I'm in is busily working on our own new version of RQ. I'm personally interested in a RuneQuest Lite, and have a couple of interesting aborted and flawed drafts already. I recommend that the RQII fans get to work on their own variant RQ Lite systems. That's how the FRP game grows -- fans adapting and developing systems in their home campaigns. Unlike board- and war-games, where rules are received from Upon High as Gospel, FRP rules evolve in their user base. Most of us professionals started as home kludgers. I suppose it's possible that some could argue that RQII is a perfect game -- though I doubt there'd be a large constituency for a first-generation RPG. I do believe there is a justifiable constituency for a simpler and/or faster-paced RuneQuest. It is not an easy design problem, to retain the flavor and favored conventions while streamlining the mechanical elements -- but I believe it is a worhtwhile project. I'm not going to recommend that AH reprint RQII in the conceivable future. I wouldn't oppose -- might even support -- some attempt to reprint it as a fan production along the lines of Tales of the Reaching Moon -- but it would be a lot of work and a lot of money spent to produce a product that would be difficult to market and sell. As a labor of love, I can understand it, but as an aesthetic advance for FRP gaming, it's hard to defend. It's good reading and thinking about your comments on this. I appreciate the comments of AH's detractors and defenders equally. I am most interested in your votes at the cash register. We are doing our very best -- sometimes, personally, more than I can stand to do and have a real life -- and I personally have a guarded satisfaction in the quality of the current supplements. I'm ever-so-happy to see all the commentary and talk-gaming about Glorantha. It's a cool place, and a true place, even though it never existed. And in reply to the comment by someone with a spectacularly unintelligible (to a network tyro) ID string of alphanumerics about the ho-hum material in Sun County and River of Cradles: The Garhound Festival is one of the best scenario settings ever designed for RQ. I've always felt that RQ Glorantha scenarios have been comparatively weak relative to the quality of the setting. I love Borderlands, but it is best as an open-ended setting, with its scenarios of modest charm. Some people adore the Cradles scenario. I see it as fine storytelling rather than as a model of scenario design. River of Cradles is essentially a reprint, and of course ho-hum to folks who already have the RQII versions. The scenarios there are... well, I can't judge my own work, but the contributions made by playtesters were invaluable, and I think the explicit development of Gloranthan themes as a structure to the sequence is a fine idea that should be extended to other scenario sequences. Ken Rolston, RuneCzar --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: book bindings Message-ID: <9304200016.AA10004@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 20 Apr 93 04:16:29 GMT > > > From: sogcity@aol.com > > Subject: Response to Adam's "Flame" > > > > Books can only be so big before they cost $40 or break their spines, or > > both. > > There is a kind of binding called "lay-flat" binding. It allows a (thick) > book to be laid open and stay open without damaging the binding. The > computer book company O'Reilly and Associates is using this binding for > all their books. Their prices didn't go up after they switched to this > binding. I wish Chaosium had used this for King of Sartar. I've read it once, and the spine is basically ruined now, and I fear the book won't survive a second reading. --------------------- From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Hero magazine Message-ID: <9304200435.AA13377@Sun.COM> Date: 20 Apr 93 04:38:57 GMT Holding out for a Hero Some one had mentioned the now defunct Hero magazine. I thought you all might find a listing of it's RuneQuest content useful. This list covers all the issues of Hero magazine that I own. Volume One: Number One: History of the Lunar Empire (part one)-G. Stafford. Runequest: A new face for an old friend (a description of RQ3) - G. Stafford. Number Three: Creepy Critters (Giant Insect stats)-S. Petersen. There is also a writeup of the Waertagi fastship and an index to articles in Wyrm's Footnotes and Different Worlds. Number Four: Wolfrunners (a scenario by Sandy Petersen) An expanded cult description of Orlanth and Hykim & Mikyh. (hey Mikyh, he likes it :-) A preview of Vikings (with good info for people who do not have that scenario pack) A short piece describing a vase that is inscribed with a picture of some poor saps attacking the Lunar Empire. Number Five: A page by Bruce Dresselhaus describing what it was like playtesting RQ3. A short piece presenting a RQ gambling system. History of the Lunar Empire (part three). An Errata section. Volume Two: Number One: An eight page article on the Ostrich Clan of Prax by Mike Dawson. Journey to Falderbash (an eight page scenario) and Gruug's Cave (a sixteen page scenario) There is also a short bit about Hit Points. Number Two: A one page Gloranthan calender. A modified Adventurer Sheet. Sugested modifications to fatigue, damage, sorcery, skill, and shield rules. Number Three: Black Sorcerer (scenario) Number Four: An eight page article on shaman. Three new sorcery spells by Martin Crim. Errata. A silly piece on abstract elementals. That's all I own. AH still had copies of most of these back issues as of last year. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Sabalauskas-Marks@slough.mit.edu --------------------------- "There is always more misery amoung the lower classes than there is humanity in the higher." Victor Hugo --------------------- From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann) Subject: Clarification for Adam Message-ID: <9304200437.AA06757@cabell.vcu.edu> Date: 20 Apr 93 04:37:47 GMT Adam, if you'll reread my comments, you'll see that I said that ASIDE from the Cradle and (the in need of a revision) Balastor's Barracks, that most of the scenarios in Pavis and Big Rubble are pretty forgettable. [or something along those lines] As I also repeated in a later post, I am in favor of reprinting the Cradle, and even tried to get Ken to let me do the rewrite. He did not bite on this idea. I suggest that you (and other Digesters) state your reasons for wanting the Cradle republished, so that you can convince him that it should be done, and soon. If you really want to see it done, then send him a good writing sample that will make him assign the project to you. I think he has my dance card filled for the forseeable future. Ken does read the Digest, though I am not sure he can get all of it because America Online limits letters to a certain size. Henk, was this problem addressed? Is that why some days there are 2 digests with the same date? I overstated when I suggested that all of RQ2 graphics were mediocre. The perspective maps in Pavis/Rubble (whatever) were excellent. In support of my statement, though, let me point out that the gorgeous, two page perspective of New Pavis has some really dumb typoes in it. That's the RQ 2 version. I detect some strong sentiment for a compiled cults book, free of any scenario material. Is this the case among the readership? Please think carefully before answering--of course we all want whatever can be produced at the current or higher quality level, but would you prefer a redone or equivalent style book along the lines of Cults of Terror or Prax? Moreso than one that includes full cult descriptions as part of scenarios? Here's an idea that just percolated out of my forebrain: (Ken take note!) What if a cults book included a small scenario for each cult writeup, giving some cult NPCs, attitudes, etc, and a chance for the PCs to interact with the cult in some way? Say, 4-5 pages of scenario, and a full cult work up. What do you think? M >|< --------------------- From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley) Subject: RQ 2, 3, 4 .... Message-ID: <9304171551.AA07891@Sun.COM> Date: 17 Apr 93 08:52:13 GMT >I suggest that you try and get hold of a RQ4 manuscript before you damn it. >Forget RQ3, everyone knows that it was a mistake. But even so it was better in >a lot of ways...I even like sorcery, well the idea if not the execution. >Cheers >Rog. I agree. I like sorcery - it adds something to Gloranthan magic that was missing. It is just a pity that the RQ3 rules were silly in parts (particularly for powerful PC sorcerors). RQ4 looks very good. Someone mentioned that it made combat even more complicated ... that is true, but many of the rules are optional or easily dropped. The new fatigue and encumbrance rules are actually playable. The rules about actions in combat begin to make sense, now. My main wishlist for the next RQ4 draft is to make a few areas a little clearer and to make the system a little more modular. Thom _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Human Cognition Research Lab _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ The Open University _/_/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Tel: +44 908 65-4518 Fax: -3169 _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk --------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: And another thing! Message-ID: Date: 17 Apr 93 22:59:00 GMT All this lethal and non-lethal damage. Long and short term etc. How the hell are we going to keep track of it? I mean it would be okay in Strombringer with just overall HP but with all the hit locations? I think this deserves a little more explanation as to how we can play it without losing ourselves in numbers.. -------------------------------------------------------------------- tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk How Illuminating! -------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) Subject: Re: Weather Message-ID: <9304182053.AA04160@lum.asd.sgi.com> Date: 18 Apr 93 06:53:48 GMT Rog writes: > Does anyone know where the best surf in Glorantha is? How about riding Magasta's Pool all the way to Hell. That should be a pretty good ride. Forget Hero Questing, it is time for Hero Surfing. Rob Mace --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Storm Bull Sense Chaos Message-ID: <01GX6YYPD9J69FRFXZ@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 19 Apr 93 22:16:27 GMT The Storm Bull article that Roger Nolan referred to in 18th April's DAILY NEWS is "Storm Bull Psychology" in TALES #8 "The Chaos Feature" (not #6). This article, by Simon Campey, is in my opinion, one of the best we have published, and the kind of "rules" article we are looking for*. Anyone want to have a go at writing how Humakt's Sense Assassin works, and what psychological/physiological effects it has on the user? *The emphasis of the fanzine is very much on Glorantha and Gloranthan background, not rules. TALES is not seeking new Alchemical rules systems, Martial Arts variants, Sorcery fixes or new spells or runes (except as part of a cult or sorcery sect). That's what RQ DAILY NEWS and DIGEST is for! The more an article is linked to Glorantha, the more chance it has of being accepted. "Pendragon Pass" in issue #6 is another example. --------------------- From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Chaos, what is it? Message-ID: <9304190425.AA28574@Sun.COM> Date: 19 Apr 93 04:28:00 GMT A Chaotic Interlude I ran across an interesting question during last night's game. What makes a being chaotic? No, I'm not asking a philosophical question here. I want to know what actually is needed to taint a person with chaos. Last night my player's attacked a chaos shrine in the Dilis swamp. The Storm Kahn released a large Spirit of Law, commanding it to destroy utterly the Evil High Priest (tm). This started an argument as to whether the human priest was a creature of chaos merely because he belonged to a chaos cult. Hahlgrim's actions in the sidebar to the Malia cult write-up in COT suggests that lay-members, at least, are not considered chaotic. Do you think that initiation or ordination makes one a being of chaos? How about gaining a chaos feature? Being targeted by Pocharngo's corruption? Playing AD&D? Thank's in advance for your advise, Mark S. --------------------- From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow) Subject: Stuff & nonsense Message-ID: <21299.9304190857@piglet.insignia.co.uk> Date: 19 Apr 93 02:08:08 GMT Mail*Link(r) SMTP Stuff & nonsense L.P.Williams@newcastle.ac.uk dribbles .... > One final point RUNEQUEST TWO IS GOD No it's not..... RQ players and GMs are 'god' - each campaign has its own rules does it matter what you use. I tend to just chuck most of the rules (and dice) out and just use the background. There is some good background stuff from AH. As rules go RQ2 was so full of holes, I'm not surprised it sank. Yes RQ3 was even more w**k (especially the British GW version) but check RQ4, it's getting together honest. Rog writes : > Does anyone know where the best surf in Glorantha is? Yep, Skyfall lake all that falling water builds up some totally radical breakers. You can check out the Zorak Zoran Surf trolls there too. You wanna go check it out? Clay Writes : >> Adam writes: >> "The point is, that AH expects to find errata in there products. " >I write software for a living, but I expect to find bugs in my products once >in a while. I sell and support software for a living and we never find bugs in our product ;-J . Funny world isn't it. --------------------- From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox) Subject: RE: The RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Apr 1993 Message-ID: <9304190936.AA22031@Sun.COM> Date: 19 Apr 93 09:35:00 GMT >>I suspect that those tables have been frigged for player character >>backgrounds, and don't necessarily reflect the 'real' population breakdowns. >>I don't really have any idea on how real populations do break down into >>percentages... > I don't think they've been mucked with too much, something like 40% >chance of being a Farmer? Doesn't sound like too exciting a career... >(Especially not to my poor player who, given three chances at the table, >still managed to get Farmer as his family's occupation). Well, I feel that 80%-90% Farmers would be nearer the real number. I used to give three rolls too on those tables, except you reroll until you get three different backgrounds, then choose one. Or you could just let people choose (but then no-one picks Farmer!). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Firearrow spell can be quite useful, cast on rocks etc., but has >anybody ever used it on a flask of oil? With the thickness of the flask >determining howe quickly the missile is consumed. Depending upon the type >of oil in the flask you could possibly produce a small explosion or just a >shower of burning oil. I think that the type of oil used in flasks etc is unlikely to be one that will burn easily, ie it will be vegetable based, rather than a petroleum based product (except maybe for Mostali). So, unless you heat it up a lot, it won't burn very easily, and won't explode (but then neither would a petrol flask). I also have bad memories of D&D games where whole parties used to go round firebombing monsters. They don't like it when the monsters start doing it back... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> I could go on about GoG and what a waste of paper that was, >But I don't agree with this. If we hadn't had all that broad (albeit shallow) >coverage, we'd not know anything "official" about any of the cults that >weren't in _Cults of Prax_ or _Cults of Terror_ [and we wouldn't have had >interesting debates about whether or not Babeester Gor rune magic is gross or >not :-)]. While I'd like to see long forms of many of the cults in GoG, it >covered much less than half the names of Gloranthan deities that I had noted >down. Yes, I agree, I think GOG is quite useful. I have RQ1, RQ2 etc, but due to lack of funds at the time was never able to buy Pavis, Big Rubble etc. For years, although I thought RQ was the best system (and still do), I never played it because it was so tied in with Glorantha AND there was very little information available. Also (heinous crime it may be to say so) I was never too keen on Prax as a place to campaign, and I STILL don't know enough about how the tribes operate, or even what some of them are, to feel comfortable enough GMing them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>I've always wondered about the logic of barbarians likeing to go on >>war parties or cattle raids. If only 10% died then it would only take >>10 years to kill off all the able bodied males (assuming it is not a >>geometric progression). Does this mean that in fact casualties from >>raids etc were very low and thus they did do a lot of raiding. Or was >>the number of raids low eg only every couple of years and we have >>been overdoing our estimates of barbarians willingness to fight. >>Comparisons to historical pre-fire-arm data would >>be interesting if anyone knows any figures. > Um, you are assuming that nobody gets born? 10% losses a year is still rather high. I think that (as in most combats, power struggles etc) actual losses would be fairly small, but there is a lot of manoeuvering for position. Once one side gets in a good situation, the others have to decide whether to fight or flee. Most times they will give up, sometimes they will fight and take losses. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Why not just present the info in formula manner?: > Agility: DEX + STR - SIZ - 10 > Communication: INT + POW/2 + APP/2 - 20 > Knowledge: INT + POW/2 - 15 > Magic: INT + POW + DEX/2 - 25 > Manipulation: INT + DEX + STR/2 - 25 > Perception: INT + POW/2 + CON/2 - 20 > Stealth: DEX + INT/2 - SIZ/2 - POW/2 - 5 >In all cases, round towards 0 (so -1.5 becomes -1, +3.5 becomes 3) Excellent (and simple) idea. Wish I'd thought of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk Subject: Armies and some preactical advice Message-ID: <9304191100.AA26438@Sun.COM> Date: 19 Apr 93 09:57:50 GMT Armies, their movement and mechanics ==================================== DISCLAIMER: Although I am not an expert in anyway on Ancient armies, I have had a substantial amount of practical experience of and in C17th armies. I am a member of the Sealed Knot Society (the society of Cavileers and Roundheads) and together with 6,000 others engage in the re-enactment of English civil war battles. Armies marched at a much slower speed than today forces, a pace of 60 beets per minuet was used as this allowed soldiers to march long distances over relatively rough terrain. Each unit is organised in terms of a blocks, each block has its own block officers, captains etc who command the block. Their orders deal at a very low level with movement, formation, firing, melee etc. Such commands are at the level of individual actions, eighteen orders are required to fire a musket volley, though h in practice this would be greatly reduced to about five or six. In the gloranthan context I believe that a similar level of activity is not only applied to missile troops but also the magicians. ie Make ready your bows, Site your focuses, Prepare your Multi Missile, At the enemy to your front present, draw back your bow strings, give fire. Such orders are reinforced by drummers who beat patterns to represent each movement and the final command may be indicated by the lowering of a sword, officers batten, partisan etc... In addition each unit stands in ranks and files according to the seniority of the troops in the unit, at the end of each file is a corporal with seargents at the corners of the block. In addition the seargent with the highest seniority stands at the top left corner of the block and is called the Elder Sargent. A company may be made up of one or more blocks and regiments are further made up of several companies. Each adds an additional layer of command and it is important to note that each company has only one purpose, missile, sword, horse, artillery etc... Orders are passed about the field by means of runners. Such persons are lightly armed and rush quickly about the field between generals and block officers giving orders. This means however that orders may be miss interpreted by block officers who so wish it without immediate censure and a general may often find himself/herself wondering why a particular block is not acting according to orders or seems to be showing a significant amount/lack of initiative. Runners are not often attacked because a large well formed unit would have to become disordered to conduct such an attack. Any attacks on runners are likely to come either from light manoverable troops or specially trained sharp shooters. Information comes to armies outside battles again by means of messengers and runners. Perhaps particularly important messages may be sent by means of mind link or prepared teleport. But often carrier birds or avian famillias are as likely to be used. Local information is obtained by scouting the surrounding area but even so enemy armies (of substantial size) have often passed within 2 kilometers of each other without detection. Each regiment (and also larger companies) would I believe have an attached small group of dedicated healers and medic's but more mundain healing is likely to be self applied (why else to soldier careers provide first aid and healing spirit magic?). Casualties provide as much of a shock to morale as to anything else a unit which has suffered 10% casualties will be badly dissorderd, have lost much of its command structure (at least in terms of seniority) and the individual soldiers will suffer bewilderment and disorientation. Most companies have a firm belief in their own ability and do not believe that they can be beaten. Once this is gone rout and retreat are inevitable. Recognition on the field is difficult with each company and regiment wearing different clothing and carrying different standards and symbols. These are of paramount importance since they give disordered troops a rallying point. Troops are nearly always disorganised by close (ie hand to hand) melee. A significant coup is obtained if an enemy unit is able to capture the standards and insignia of another unit and such attempts often resulted in the bloodiest combat. During the ECW their are plenty of recorded instances of friendly units attacking each other because recognition failed. This situation is obviously improved by the wearing of religious insignia but how for examples is a company of Humakti swords going to tell the difference between themselves and a company of Yanna Faltarnis swords in the heat of battle or worse between the Trolls fighting on their side provided by Cragspider and the unit of Blue moon trolls fighting for the Lunars? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ David Ingram . (though which king I am not prepared to specify) --------------------- From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk Subject: oncernig a comment of mine. Message-ID: <9304191247.AA22580@uk.ac.aber.fronta> Date: 19 Apr 93 14:47:02 GMT I mentioned the fact that errata is always to be found in the various AH packs and was promptly flamed for implying that AH could produce 100% perfect goods. Ok, so I was wrong to have suchh a presumption, but I still think AH should provide some form of after sales support. I noticed that AH also are singing the praises of TORM. That's great, but are they now going to rely on TORM for release of the errata. Ok onto another problem. RQ4. We play RQ2 with a few modifications. Reasons are it's simple straightforward and doesn't attempt to complicate itself. combat is a long process as it is without making it even worse. Personally, I feel that RQ should be moving back towards the simplicity in RQ2 with the modifications necessary to remove the various bugs and the addition of new concepts (ie Sorcery). BTW I hope sourcery is re-written. I liked the ideas behind Runic Sourcery although even that seemed too complicated and allowed people to become overly powerful quickly. RQ is one of those nice little games where no matter how hard you become, somebody can always get lucky. Runic Sourcery was on the right track, using the runes present within glorantha rather than making up some invisible god etc etc . I like the idea of manipulating the raw elements of Glorantha. Anyway I'm rambling and I've got to get back to work. Adam --------------------- From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk Subject: Dragon Newts as PC's Message-ID: <9304191314.AA06569@Sun.COM> Date: 19 Apr 93 12:10:56 GMT Dragon Newts as PC's ===================== Master Lord Prince of the Red Star has asked me to say a few words on this subject. As a some time Dragon Newt and adventurer he expects all who come into his presence to be awed by his presence and glory and since mere mortals cannot be expected to cope whith this he sends a blind folded human slave emissary before him into any chamber he is about to enter. This terrified slave proclaimes to all that his master is come and they should cover their eyes lest they be blinded by his majesty. MLP asks me to also point out that he is an avid supporter of something called Arsenall Football Club (though he is not sure what this is) and he prefers it if his player consumes several bottles of Red Wine before play commenses as he feels that his persona and personality are more correctly portraid in this case.