Bell Digest v930423

Date: Fri, 23 Apr 93 17:15:19 +0200
From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 23 Apr 1993

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

						-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to: 		    
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM

---------------------

From: brandon@ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 22 Apr 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <9304221535.AA11673@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 22 Apr 93 15:35:17 GMT


Rob Mace writes:

>As far as getting rid of [chaos features] I don't think that just any old DI 
>should be capable of it.  I believe that for a DI to be capable of removing 
>chaos feature, the god who is granting it should have special powers for
>destroying chaos, not just for fighting it.  None of Storm Bull's spells
>are actually targeted at directly harming chaos so I would not allow his
>DI's to remove a feature.  I might allow Humakt's DIs to remove a feature
>based on his ability to sever ties.  (By the way I forget where, but
>remember Greg stating that a DI could not remove a feature.)

Yes, but remember that severing cuts more than corruption. In our campaign, a 
player was able to remove a taint by going to his Humakti temple and walking
(on the hero plane) to Humakt, asking him to remove the taint. Humakt told
him to stand at attention, drew his sword and sliced the taint (which looked
like gangrenous flesh on the hero plane) completely out, together with a good
deal of the character. Several CON rolls later, the player returned to 
Glorantha, healed of his taint but with -6 POW, -3 CON, and a permanent scar
from left collarbone to right hip. He was fortunate not to die.

>Hero Quests should be able to remove features.  Here is a basic out line
>for a Storm Bull quest for removing a chaos feature.

>  - Go to Storm Bull.
>  - Storm Bull stomps on you until you have been pounded way beyond mush.
>  - Spend a long time in this state as the chaos leaches out of you.
>  - Chalana Arroy comes along and does her best to put you back together.
>  - You might not be put back together as good as you were before the
>    ritual, but then Storm Bull might take a liking to you and grant you
>    some sort of a boon.

Excellent, and just the kind of cult-appropriate quest to remove a taint.

>I would probably allow a Storm Bull DI to accomplish the first step above
>of sending you to Storm Bull.  ("Oh mighty Storm Bull please stomp the
>chaos out of me.")



>Occasionally there should be special powers that can remove a chaos feature.
>The special river power in RoC is one such case.  In the campaign in which
>I play one of my heros has gained such a power.  On the Hill of Gold quest
>he defeated Zorak Zoran and reclaimed Fire.  He gained the special power
>of the Cleansing Flame.  It was a power lost during the Greater Darkness.
>(I still have not figured out why my character gained it as it was not a
>power that Yelmalio ever had.  There is a reference to the power in the
>start of the Moorgarki cult write up in Troll Gods.)  The Cleansing Flame
>will cause a chaos feature to burn up into nothingness.  However this
>is not the most pleasant of things for the possessor of the feature as
>they will take damage from the fire until it has burned up all the chaos.
>This could kill the one that is to be saved.

This is similar to the river of gold under Ythuppa, as I wrote about earlier.
Water from Heler's well also cleansed someone of a taint in my campaign.

Brandon Brylawski


---------------------

From: MILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Humakti from the kingdom of war
Message-ID: <9304221550.AA26149@noc2.dccs.upenn.edu>
Date: 22 Apr 93 15:49:00 GMT

burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski) writes:
> I second this motion.  In my new RQ group (beating on the Rev 4 draft patching
> the rev 3 set) I have (had) 2 Humacti warriors.  Well, to make a long story
> short, they were in a city on Jonatela, started a bar fight and proceded to
> kill the people when they responded.

Basically they went and killed a lot of people for no reason. While I
don't think this matches the Orlanthi version of Humakt, IMHO it
matches the Kingdom of War's vision of Humakt. Don't tell me that Lord
Death on a Horse would disapprove of their actions. You may find that
Humakt as worshipped in the Kingdom of War does not have access to the
Truth rune, or if he does then honor is defined utterly differently
(though he would still have geasa and gifts).

whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
S sign lists littles what wetland received in phire bonuse    --1M Monkeys

---------------------

From: jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor)
Subject: Re: FWD>RuneQuest Daily, Thu
Message-ID: <1978.9304221635@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
Date: 22 Apr 93 09:45:23 GMT

                       Subject:                               Time:5:25 pm
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>FWD>RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 22 Ap     Date:22/4/93

> Context

Sorry I'm pissed after an IHDS Thursday afternoon. Take all quotes in
context, chaps.

> Reprints

Reprint Borderlands now! Good setting, excellent short adventures
(tusk riders rule, organised broos, etc) and altogether a fine boxed
set. In fact, reprint EVERYTHING, don't bother about converting the
NPC stats, we'll do that. Just make everyone who accidentally
sold/gave/swapped all their old RQ stuff a bit (strike that, an
extreme amount) happier.  It can't be any hassle - JUST REPRINT IT SO
EVERYONE CAN HAVE A COPY.  It was classic stuff. Listen to me - I'm
pissed and I care about RQ.  OK?

> Boxed set

Disagree Rog. I think big books like the original Griffin Mountain are
better than boxed sets which have too many awkward separate bits and
pieces. In case you missed the point - REPRINT GRIFFIN MOUNTAIN. Groan
.

> RQ4

IMHO more complexity is OK so long as you base it on a decent set of
fundamental principles. Everyone knows the RQ combat rules and they're
not going to change outside minor tweaks here and there. I've played
RoleMaster and I don't like the endless multiply indexed table look
ups to table look ups to a completely unrealistic end result: I don't
think RQ's going to end up like that.  Oliver, Ken, and everyone else
appear to have the right idea: don't you think so?  In any case if RQ
gets too complicated (read: uses tables apart from the known and loved
fumble tables) people will just use RQ2/3 like they're doing at the
moment, and I'm sure the guys in control are aware of this.

> RQ Lite

If RQ is how everyone wants it to be then this isn't really necessary.
RQ2 was lite enough.

czeers
Jase

---------------------

From: jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor)
Subject: Re: FWD>RuneQuest Daily, Thu
Message-ID: <2010.9304221644@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
Date: 22 Apr 93 09:55:27 GMT


                       Subject:                               Time:5:41 pm
  OFFICE MEMO          RE>FWD>RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 22 Ap     Date:22/4/93
> Chaotic features as applied to Storm Bulls

Naturally, this is at the referee's discretion, but I would have
thought that it's quite rare for someone like a Storm Bull to be on
the receiving end of a Curse of Thed, and if so as someone else said
it consists of two parts. Taking a Chaos feature voluntarily or
becoming Illuminated marks you permanently as Chaos-tainted. However I
don't think that a bald-headed Primal Chaos priest (a la Richard
O'Brien in Robin of Sherwood, did you see that episode? excellent)
pointing his finger at you is the same thing. Course you may get an
extra thumb on the end of your nose (spot the RQ2 reference anyone?)
or an extra 100D6 STR but you're not necessarily tainted IMHO. You're
still resisting Chaos with every atom of your body. I don't know what
the solution is but I would have thought that a DI or other suitable
Rune (sorry, divine) magic would have been enough, given that you
didn't ask for the feature in the first place. OTOH if you walk into
the Berserk Storm Bull Chaos Buggerers Arms with an extra arm they may
need convincing that you aren't a storm bull broo (an axe may be
necessary, together with enough balls to drink 8 broos under the
table).  czeers Jase Course, when I sober up, my views may be totally
different.

---------------------

From: seh0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: Cults book
Message-ID: <9304221359.AA10887@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 22 Apr 93 15:59:40 GMT

Ok, guys.  I know this might sound contradictory, but here goes.  It
strikes me that we DO need detailed cults, otherwise you wind up with
the situations described by Burton, and innumerable other situations.
Without a bit of history and background the cult has no feel.
Babeester Gor becomes a cult with some wass hard rune spells, but no
real culture, and let's face it, it's the culture in the world of
Glorantha that hooked me.  One of my favourite supplements is the
Glorantha: Crucible of the Hero Wars BOXED SET, simply because it is
lots and lots of background.  Therefore, my vote goes towards an
expanded cults book.

BUT!!!!  My vote does NOT go towards a cults book with a little
scenario beside each cult, for several reasons.  First, I think the
scenarios themselves might fall too easily into the "OK, so how do we
fit Humakt into this adventure" trap, and the scenarios themselves
then dwindling in value, lacking any real fire of imagination.
However, my main criticism is that if we have a cult book with 4-5
pages of scenario per cult, then the book is rapidly going to expand
to perhaps unmanageable levels.  The number of cults you would
actually get in the book would be drastically reduced, and, after all,
the reason you're buying the book is to get the cults.  Rather than
each book being accompanied by a scenario, I'd rather see each cult
being accompanied by an example section, such as the Reminiscences of
Paulis, the Travels of Biturian Varosh, or even a more substantial
section, such as the Founding of the Temple of the Wooden Sword for
Humakt.  I think this would illustrate the social structure of the
cult far more effectively than any scenario.

PS I back the "RQ2 was a simple system and that's what made it magic"
side of the debate.  One thing I think I should make clear, since
there's been a number of people who have been commenting things along
the lines of "Yeah, well, forget it, cause RQ2 is gone and RQ4 is
here!"  RQ4 is not yet here, and until it is, we, by our comments, can
perhaps affect how it will turn out.  By arguing for simplicity in the
rules system, perhaps we can show the folks at AH that that is what
drew many of us to RQ2 in the first place.  I note the voice of reason
that observed RQ2 is still recommended as a substitute for AD&D, RQ3
isn't.  I know RQ2 is gone.  I know we've got to work with what there
is, but if we push for simple systems that put the emphasis on role
playing then I think we're moving in the right direction.  There's
bits about RQ4 I like.  I'm not overly keen on character generation
because it seems to create clones still.  Not clones of different
character backgrounds, bui t a farmer is a farmer is a farmer in
general, if you're creating a starting character.  I want to see an
overhauled sorcery.  Me and adam are working away on our own sorcery
system, as he noted, but we'd still like to see what the Chaosium
gurus have to offer.

PPS The Courtesan skill sucks.  Do we really need this skill?  I mean,
really, the description of this skill is the kind of thing that makes
critics of roleplaying nod their heads and mutter "We ought to protect
our children from this".

PPPS Goodbye, folks, too much writing on here, not enough writing on
my essay.

Stephen M Hunt
Better Red Than Dead

---------------------

From: awr0@aberystwyth.ac.uk
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <9304221507.AA16719@deca.aber.ac.uk>
Date: 22 Apr 93 17:07:13 GMT

Anybody seen Shadows yet. What do you get for the money you spend?

Adam Reynolds

---------------------

From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: HOTT RQIV/3
Message-ID: 
Date: 22 Apr 93 18:09:00 GMT

HOTT

I play HOTT often and it's a lovely set of rules that I would
reccommend for RQers.

Whether it can cope with YOUR view of magic in battle I don't know but
it's good and a 6mm army costs very little.

RQ4/3

Could RQ4 please have a little section explaining RQ3 differences. So
that new players can use all the RQ3 stuff. I would hope that a very
quick explanantion of what has been changed and of how RQ3 prev
experience worked. Thus people could still use Glo Bestiary and Elder
SEcrets etc.

Copies of RQ3 stuff will still be in circulation after all.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk 
                                                   How Illuminating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------

From: trystro!rune@Think.COM (Peter Maranci)
Subject: Assorted RQ Ramblings...
Message-ID: <9304230159.AA01628@Early-Bird.Think.COM>
Date: 22 Apr 93 22:44:24 GMT

In response to Ghost Dancer's comments on the nature of scenarios
(I have a feeling that's not the correct form for the plural of
"Scenario"):

In general I agree with your points. RQ players aren't AD&D players,
and I doubt that any RQ GM treats the published scenari(a)(os)(?)  as
absolute canon. Certainly I for one have never used an adventure
straight out of the box; most often I use bits and pieces as reference
material. Magic items, interesting NPCs, odd plot complications --
those are what I really need.

That's not to detract from the value of info paks, however.  Area and
race descriptions are as important (if not more so) than any scenario
material.

My problem as a writer is this: how do I resolve the conflict between
openness and the need for form? For example, I have a scenario which I
think is original and interesting. I'd like to write it up, and send
it off somewhere. However, one of the most enjoyable thing about the
scenario is the extremely open quality of the basic plot, and all the
potential sub-plots involved. Many of the specific details depend upon
the individual PCs and GM. If I write the scenario up in the
conventional fashion, the specific numbers and personalities I
generate will certainly not be appropriate for many GMs.

I may have to write it up in standard format anyway, but it does seem
that there should be a better way.

		*			*			*

>From Loren Miller:

LM> Watch your mouth, Peter. You and other people who play in Glorantha
LM> may think that the focus of this group should be discussion of the
LM> world of Glorantha, but I don't agree. I don't play in Glorantha, and
LM> though I may at some time in the future presently my only connection
LM> to this group is the rules. If this is not the place to discuss rules
LM> then I don't have any reason to participate.

Well, we certainly wouldn't want you not to participate, Loren!

Actually I agree with you to an extent, and was perhaps unclear in my
phrasing. You may recall that I suggested the possibility of generic
campaign concepts and unusual rules mechanisms be collected and
published for RQ (for example, I'd like to see several different rule
mechanisms for psionics and different magic systems).

What I meant to say was that I think we are *overcomplicating* the
rules. RQII was great, though not perfect (heresy! 8^>} ); though I
don't think that the considerable increase in rule quantity in RQIII
was a bad thing, we don't need to make the system any more
complicated. RQII was a lot easier to learn (and to teach) than RQIII.
When an AD&D player picks up RQ for the first time, the last thing we
need to do is confuse him or her.

Rather than compose a morass of rules for every contingency, we should
strive to base the system on a few simple and widely-applicable
concepts, easily understood. The opposed resolution roll is a fine
example of this, I think.

	*			*			*

I'm getting a little long-winded here. My apologies.

Carl Fink wrote:
CF>   No.  It should be just about the same size as RQIII.  For one
CF> thing,  we intend to cut quite a bit of the RQIII Gamemaster's Book.

Really? What do you intend to cut? I kind of liked that book.  It was
short, and had some good ideas.

							-->Pete
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci
trystro!rune@think.com                  or                rune@trystro.uucp   
"Hey! Your Tien fell in my Atyar!"  "Well, your Atyar got in my Tien!"
Thanatar -- two great Chaos Gods that go great together!

---------------------

From: etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se (Allan Murphy)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 22 Apr 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9304230716.AA05779@aachen.ericsson.se>
Date: 23 Apr 93 11:16:12 GMT


> From: SPB1@vms.bton.ac.uk (Ghost Dancer)
>
> So how do you write a recuring villain into a published scenario? Well you
> can't, it must be up to the GM to adapt to fit. This can be quite easy, often
> the simple inclussion of a behind the scenes influence is sufficient, why are
> the Trollkin raiding the local farms? Why have a lot of rich homes in Pavis
> suddenly been robbed and only Golden goblets taken?
>
> With a bit more work almost any scenario can be changed, when I ran the
> Garhound contest my trickster was there running a gambling ring, he had taken
> steps to fix the contest as well of course.

I liked these points - I introduced running villains into our campaign
and it holds the whole thing together nicely. With the selection of
pantheons and cults in RQ ( if you play Glorantha of course ) nearly
everything a party of PCs does should be offensive to someone ! Simply
have an observer standing by from a group who would find the PCs
activities offensive; then away you go.

In our RQ campaign, the motivation for the 'villains' came by
accident. The party is bound together by their hatred of trolls (
Aldryami/Yelmalio/Orlanth ) and so they went on a raid on a minor
troll temple. Unfortunately one of the 'hangers on' to the party was a
Storm Bull ( came along with the Orlanthi ).  After reaching the troll
temple, he realised it was a temple to Zorak Zoran; I reasoned that
since ZZ and SB are associate cults, he would have nothing to do with
the business, and in fact got got quite peeved. Unable to take on the
party himself, he left to get assistance. So later the party encounter
some Storm Bulls out to teach them a lesson, but they manage to defeat
the berserks in a fight, causing more Storm Bull aggression - now they
occasionally have to take on or flee from gangs of Storm Bull
warriors...  This was particularly dramatic when the PCs staggered out
of the Chaos Caves in Snake Pipe Hollow ( two with chaotic features )
to be confronted by the gang of berserks that had been following them.

Plus of course the trolls weren't too hapy about the mess in the
temple.....

An important point is not to make the villain turn up in every
adventure you GM; then it will just get tiresome for the players. Plus
don't make the villain indestructible; again it just annoys the
players because it looks like the GM is fudging reality.

Allan.

--
Allan J. Murphy                /   \   "We've got a free pair of flares with
			       \   /    every hip replacement, just take the
etlanmy@aachen.ericsson.se     /   \    stairs down to the bargain basement."

---------------------

From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: chaotic features
Message-ID: <9304230754.AA19714@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Apr 93 11:54:20 GMT

> Taking a Chaos feature voluntarily or becoming Illuminated
> marks you permanently as Chaos-tainted.

Illumination does not make you "Chaos-tainted", but it'd make you
suspect in the company of Storm Bull initiates.

---------------------

From: SPB1@VMS.BRIGHTON.AC.UK (Ghost Dancer)
Subject: Lay Membership
Message-ID: <9304230829.AA26460@Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Apr 93 08:29:00 GMT

>Is there anyone else out there who regrets the loss of lay membership in 
>RQ religions.
>
>I view intiate status as representing a genuine ongoing commitment to a 
>god and his/her/its ethics. Lay membership is just a way of showing 
>respect or donating money to the cult, usually in return for services 
>that are elsewhere unavailable from your own cult, and lasts for only a 
>short period.
>
>What do others think?

Personally I never stopped alowing Lay membership to Cults, I always
considered it was a bit like going to church and making a donation
without really becoming part of the religion.

I think in many ways Lay membership is essential, otherwise how can
characters get enough of a feel for a cult to decide whether to join
up or not. I do place a few restrictions on Lay membership however.
Players wishing to become Lay members must not be an Initiate or
greater of a Cult which is hostile or antagonistic to the new cult, so
no Thed worshipers becoming Lay members of Storm Bull. Outside of Holy
Days Lay membership will cost 1 pt of POW or an appropriate donation,
this is to cover the Priests time etc... On Holy Days it will cost at
least 1 pt of POW and possibly more or a donation as well to attend a
service, this will of course only be to open services, each cult has
certain closed services which are not open to Lay members.

Generally I make Lay membership a requirement for any sort of cult
interaction, such as spell learning, consulting Lhankor Mhy texts,
getting Chalana Arroy to heal a party member etc.. This helps to
instill a strong sense of the interaction of Gods in the everyday life
of Glorantha rather than letting them become something that can be
ignored.

As a result, and without my prompting, the party of Sun Domers on my
campaign have become a very pious lot who routinely attend the local
shrine or temple when in town to sacrifice a point of POW every
morning whether it's a holy day or not. This should certainly stand
them in good stead if any of them ever wish to try for Rune status.
Two members of the party even prayed for (and received) additional
Geases without asking for any Gifts. One day soon the Suns going to be
shining out of their collective ass's.
   ._
  /! \  Alternative
 /-!-/  Realities                   Jarec
/  ! \  Games Club                  e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK

---------------------

From: peterw@computer-science.manchester.ac.uk (Peter Wake)
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
Message-ID: <9304231304.AA02477@r2k.cs.man.ac.uk>
Date: 23 Apr 93 13:04:07 GMT

Cult Book: Yes Please!
----------------------

It was better than nothing, and it was good to get write ups for cults
like Yelm, the Red Goddess and such.  Alas the new longer cult write
ups contradict it in many ways, often needlessly, this seems a little
confusing.  I'd really like to see a cults book with detail.  Cults of
Prax made RQ2 for me, it brought Glorantha to life.  If we don't have
a cults book to do it we need something.  Sun County is too restricted
to say much about Glorantha.  We need something.

Futhermore I don't like the cult write-ups getting scattered
throughout books with scenarios in them.  Players want to read up on
their cult.  Players want to read up on all the cults in fact, how
else can they choose what to join?  How can they if all the write ups
are in a book of referee source material like Sun County or RoC?  I've
had to photocopy the cults out of those books.  It seems like you have
no other option apart from pulling the books apart.  Concentrate the
cults in books that you can give to players straight off.  I'm pig
sick of lugging a foot high heap of source material to games.  In the
days of RQ2 I could get all I needed for a session in the box!

As far as RoC went to me it was a big waste.  The only really new
thing was a scenario I might not run.  Don't get me wrong, I think
that the source material was useful for people without the old stuff
BUT (and it's a big one) for those with the old stuff there's nothing
but the scenario and a few details.  Pavis would have been better
released intact (combined with the rubble of course, like it always
should've been).  They could've dropped most of the scenarios and the
Sun County/Corflu stuff but kept the cradle.  I think that RoC was
designed to increase its market by squeezing old gamers into buying
what they already had, just to get a few cult writeups.  For new
gamers it is probably OK but I think I'd rather had less of a mish
mash.  Sun County was much better, though I'd already seen the
Garhound scenario.  The stuff that came out of Pavis was correctly
placed in Sun County.

All the old RQ2 stuff had clear purpose and application.  Of the new
stuff the Glorantha Box, Troll Realms, Troll Gods, Sun County and GoG
have that but lack either new material or any spark of life.  RoC is
trying to do too much and is a thinly spread, mixed up Prax-pak.
Troll Pak was borderline, the troll stuff in Elder Secrets should have
stayed in Troll Pak and Troll Gods.  Elder Secrets seemed to have the
trolls in it as filler...

For the above reasons I don't want to see scenarios in a cults book.
Why not just put the scenarios in a separate book like Troll Realms?
OK that's two covers to print instead of one, which puts the cost up a
bit, but it makes it easier to sell the cults book to players 'cos
their referee won't say don't buy it.

So what do I want?
------------------

King of Sartar - King or cross-reference grief more like.  Actually I
think this is a great book and it has so much in it that you couldn't
find out before.  The problem is that it is unusable as a ply aid.  I
wanted to find out the names of the various Sartrite tribes and what
lands they held.  I wanted to find out what clans were in each tribe.
Because this material exists I want to conform with it, but its
practically impossible.  Apart from a list of Colymar clans what's
there is so confusing as to be worse than useless.  You know there are
tribes and clans but you don't know if you have all of them or where
they live or which clans are in which tribe.

Please please, if the people that bought the Greg Stafford notes are
on the net, or anybody who knows: can you put this tribe/clan info on
the net somehow.  Just a list of Quivini tribes and what clans are
currently in them, maybe with lost clans as well but marked as such.
I know that there must be a map of who owns what lands, can someone
post it somehow (postscript, GIF or whatever).  Can it go in the next
TotRM?  I just know my campaign will be 'Gregged' as soon as some new
material comes out for Sartar.  What about lists of enemy clans, lists
of marriagable clans...  I bet GS has all this stuff.  There are two
options: ignore KoS and then ignore everything that builds on it or
try and conform and suffer.  I can absorb some stuff easily but these
clans and tribes are a bit too specific to just fudge over, the PCs
are part of them, how can they get them wrong?

I badgered Ken Rolston to produce an Atlas of Glorantha/A-Z: a set of
decent maps of Glorantha with an index of place names and grid coords
in it, but he is against this because there wouldn't be scenarios in
the pack (and no doubt for other reasons).  I just think this 'we
can't do it if there are no scenarios' policy is like tying your hands
behind your back.  I have seen a zillion maps of Sartar and they're
all different.  If these maps are supposed to help the referee they
don't.  The referee's map should be correct and unabridged.  I'd
rather have *no* maps than five or seven or nine that contradict each
other, or that you have to combine to get all the 'official' stuff.
The only place that has a good map of it is the RoC and that first
appeared in Pavis (surprise surprise).  The Trollpak map would be good
if it covered the south of Sartar or didn't contradict many other
maps.  I can't imagine how people without the maps in RQ2 get by, the
map of Dragon Pass in Glorantha was a bit sparse.

Ken did suggest that there might be a list/index of maps covering all
source material.  The A-Z of Glorantha but you have to use the maps
out of your other supplements.  This would be better than nothing.
How many times have you read GS stuff and had no idea at all where
those places were.  you get out your maps to look and they're not
shown.  Try and locate the ex-boundaries of the EWF (ha just try).
Not only is it unknown but you have a few clues that can contradict
what you choose just to screw you up - if only you could understand
the clues.  You have to survey a ton of literature just to put it
together.  I'd forgotten what a pain it all was when there were no new
supplements coming out (because I knew that as long as I stuck with
what I had I couldn't be contradicted).

I really believed GS when he said there would be no official
Glorantha, but a year later I don't think that it's going to work like
he hopes.  GS is just too sacred and all the clique have access to
stuff from him and base their stuff on it - the same stuff that
finally becomes published.  If I start a new Glorantha campaign I
think I'll set it somewhere that hasn't and probably won't be
detailed.  The cults and stuff are too good to waste but I'm not sure
the rest of it is worth the hassle.  AH and KR aren't making Glorantha
accessible, perhaps because they're struggling to get sales with just
a couple of new releases a year.  We need supplements that put
Glorantha at your fingertips and are vague rather than incomplete.
This tribes/clans of Sartar are a perfoect example: why not release
this info when it would nly take a page or two?  I don't think White
Wolf are so hot, but their supplements are easy to use and incorporate
ambiguity and incompleteness in a usable way.

Maybe I should give up trying to get anything but a little inspiration
from KoS but it seems such a shame to just ignore almost all of it
simply because it's impossible to extract what I want.

GS on the net
-------------

Don't hold your breath.  I don't think he'd like being mailed to
death...  Ken Rolston likes to know what's going on, but GS seems to
be the kind of guy that doesn't like too much attention.

Lay Flat Binding
----------------

Can we have this in the future?  Why not use it on RQ4?  Should we all
mail KR and ask for it? :-)

RQ4
---

From reading the 2.0 draft it is apparent that all the RQ3 scenario
stats will work with RQ4 with only tiny mods for fatigue.  There
shouldn't/needn't be another set of reissues.

Will RQ4 have *all* the Genertelan monsters in it?  I hate having to
lug three books just to be able to look everything up.  Can we have
the stats for pixies back too?  Currently you need the Glorantha book
plus the Creatures from the Deluxe box and the Gloranthan Bestiary.
I'd like to see either a complete Gloranthan bestiary that doesn't
omit anything just 'cos it's in another book or the GB to vanish and
everything be combined in the RQ4 rules.

I don't care if RQ4 is fat.  There are plenty of fat books, Ars Magica
third ed. for instance.  I'd rather have a fat book than five books
and lots of redundant material.  Hey and what about that lay flat
binding, that'd stop all the pages bursting out.

BTW I think that non-lethal damage is both unrealistic and unwieldy
but it is rather trendy and cinematic so perhaps there are grounds on
keeping it for those who like such things.  I'd like to see it flagged
optional (can't remember if it already is).  I'd like a fair few of
the combat options to be flagged optional too.  Perhaps a grey
background for optional rules in the book too.  Make those options
stand out as *options*.  Too many people play all optional rules
because they think they are being 'advanced'.  -- Peter Wake - The
Ghost from the Grand Rants

---------------------

From: joe@tpki.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Sartarite city housing
Message-ID: 
Date: 23 Apr 93 14:01:03 GMT

I have a question about what kind of houses the sartarite cities
sport.  The well known birds' view of new Pavis, a saratrite founding,
shows houses mainly in the oasis style, with flat roofs and roof
gardens. But I can hardly take this as general model for sartarite
housing, can I?  I would rather expect some saddle roof buildings,
which evolved out of the typical rural long house. That would rather
be the style in a wet and stormy climate, as worship of Heler and
Orlanth thunderous seem to indicate.  by the way, what's the climate
around southern Genertela? Californian?  So if anybody out there who
has played in Sartar (e.g. in Home of the Bold) and has more
information or ideas, please post them! I'm about to draw a birds'
view of a part of Jonstown (the LM university) and want to do it
right.

Thanks for now,

Joerg

-- 
Joerg Baumgartner		joe@tpki.toppoint.de
2300 Kiel
				Free INT - Das RuneQuest-Magazin