Bell Digest v930427

From runequest Wed May  5 12:25:39 1993
From news@glorantha Tue Apr 27 17:17:19 1993
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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 27 Apr 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at

						-Henk Langeveld
Send Submissions to: 		    	
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM


~From: (Brandon Brylawski)
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 26 Apr 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
~Date: 26 Apr 93 15:59:31 GMT

Re Stephen Hunt's cult write-ups:

I liked the cult of Cernein quite a bit, and it seems to have a good niche
and be appropriately power balanced. I do have one important contention, and
that is the name of the Hunting ritual. The Wild Hunt is already an entity in
Glorantha, and one that strikes dread into the hearts of most who have seen it.
I have heard that it materializes at times on the plains of Prax for mystical
reasons, sometimes having to do with revenge. Gagarth, the Wild Hunter, leads
the hunt, taking the form of a man with stag antlers and urging on a pack
of enormous dogs. As Gagarth is a son of Umath, the primal Air, the Hunt can fly
over any obstacle in their path as they track down and kill their prey, who
is sometimes an animal, sometimes a sentient. When the prey is trapped, Gagarth
looses an arrow from his bow that upon striking the prey smites it with a blast
of lightning. No-one (that I know of) has been picked as prey for the Hunt and
escaped death, although it is said that if one is at the right place and right
time, one might be invited to join the Hunt. Gagarth's thunderbolt arrows I have
seen, and bought one from a buffalo rider friend who found three on the Prax
in the Hunt's wake. 
  The Hunt ritual itself seems valuable; perhaps it should just be called 
the Hunt?

ALUMNI107@camins.Camosun.BC.CA writes, in his list of games:

>Red Bear & White Moon : $5

aieeee!!!!!  The tricksters win this round!


With regard to the Kingdom of War being Humakti, albeit a perverse branch (from
the point of view of Dragon Pass): I was told this by Phil Davis, a longtime
friend of Greg Stafford, and the picture he wove of a degenerate Humakt cult
made perfect sense. Indeed, Humakt there (if that is really what's going on)
has become very like Zorak Zoran in many ways, although I didn't hear anything
about a Darkness association. The label is not meaningful, I think - whatever
the dominant cult in the Kingdom of War, it's not Humakt nor Zorak Zoran as
we know them here east of the syndic's ban. What might decide it is certain
small cultural itesm, e.g. are there undead there in any quantity? Humakti
despise them and I think would still do so without the Truth Rune, whereas
ZZ cultists use them without compunction.

Andrew Bean : with regard to Humakt removing a chaos taint, in this area Orlanth
Rex was ruler of his pantheon, which included Huamkt; the PC in question first 
walked to Orlanth, who sent him to Humakt as the one who might be able to
rid him of the chaos. Certainly in areas where Humakt is independent of Orlanth
he would have no special reason to dislike chaos, but where he is under the 
storm god's command he must consider chaos an enemy.

I also wholeheartedly endorse a return to lay membership. It fulfills a wise
variety of socially useful roles and helps to include adventurers in one 
another's understandings.

Brandon Brylawski

Humakt; I simply abbreviated events.


~From: (Adrian Brownlow)
~Subject: Slavery in Glorantha
Message-ID: <>
~Date: 26 Apr 93 08:30:37 GMT

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Slavery in Glorantha
How widespread is slavery in Glorantha? 

Heres my thoughts on the matter - I haven't read any official source material
so correct me if I stray from the 'one true path' too much.

1) The Praxian Nomads
These guys will take people as slaves during the raids, but the way I see it
these slaves would eventually become adopted into the capturing tribe. Wouldn't
a kahn who captured persons from another tribe be more or less honour bound to
protect his new property? Also I can't see that the Praxians would trade slaves
either amongst themselves or to outsiders (they're so xenophobic after all -
who'd sell a person to the Lunar Chaos armies etc?). However particualarly
powerfull Kahns may buy in talent eg scribe slaves etc. Or do people think that
Kahns would rather pay wages to get the services they require? Slaves in the
Praxian culture would soon integrate with the tribe and hence would have a
reasonable chance of social advancement. A Kahn may for example adopt a young
male slave.

2) The Lunars
I would imagine the Lunars keep slaves in much the same ways as the romans did.
Some are cruelly treated others are highly asteemed and almost personal
friends. This fits with my view as the lunars as very much the equivalent of
the roman empire. Much like the romans, freedom and citisen ship would be
rewards for worthy slaves and hence a route to higher social standing.

3) Pentians
These guys would almost definatly keep slaves - why should the weak be allowed
thier freedom. The pentian nomads have to be really tough to survive and I
think they probably view captives as a usefull asset to be used in whatever
method they choose. Because of the insular nature of the nomads I can't see how
a slave could advance his social status within the culture without a fairly
extraordinary occurance - eg save high priest from certain death etc.

4) Orlanthi
I don't think slavery would be tolerated within Orlanthi society - there is far
too much emphasis on the freedom of the individual. However if as suggested in
the Daily yesterday the Orlanthi are organised in a similar way to the Saxons
then there would effectively be a slave class of bondsmen. I a society like
this the bondsmen do have a chance of climbing the social ladder, there are
also strict rules about how bondsmen are treated eg you can't just kill one for
a laugh.

Comments? (ie constructive)



~From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
~Subject: The Kingdom of War, and the Five Arkats
Message-ID: <930426195349_100270.337_BHB69-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 26 Apr 93 19:53:49 GMT

Just a few quick answers.
for Andrew Bean:
We think Humakt is worshipped in the Kingdom of War for three reasons:

The RQ mechanics say so (Players' Book Genertela p.29: CULTS - all war 
gods.  If Humakt isn't a war god, who is?).

Tim Minas pointed out (in a fine letter to Tales 6) how blindingly obvious 
it is that the God of War is worshipped in the Kingdom of War.

The location of the Kingdom of War in the West makes it almost inevitable 
that Humakt will be worshipped there.  Humakt is, you see, Western in 
origin.  West = Sunset = Death.

Objection 1: the Pentans worship him as the North War Wind. Ah, but their 
god is nearer to Valind than Humakt (all those cold/storm associations). To 
the Pentans, West = Land of Plenty.  North = Winter Wastes = Death.  Makes 
more sense this way for them.

Objection 2: the Sartar High Council invokes him as "North Wind, cold and 
dark and deadly" (WF 7 p.13).  But the Sartarite settlers came from 
Heortland and Esrolia, where for centuries there was a northern border of 
crosses which it was death to cross.  Local circumstances overcoming global 
themes: the north becomes the realm of death, and remains so even when they 
go there to live.

The only two places where Humakt features in wide-screen Gloranthan history 
(as opposed to rules mechanics or parochial Sartarite events from KoS) are 
as the father of Arkat (from the West), and Wargod of the Carmanian Empire 
(from the West).  The Orlanthi mythology which relates to Humakt is devoted 
to explaining why this god, who is a foreigner (KoS p.67) and has no storm 
related powers whatsoever, is considered a brother to Orlanth.

The original Orlanthi "god" Humakt is no more than the Fifth Magic Weapon, 
the iron sword that Orlanth wields (KoS passim).  But by the late Third 
Age, they became cosmopolitan enough to include the Western "soldier god" 
aspect as part of this Sword cult.  This may be why Stephen P. Martin 
thinks there were eight Lightbringers: Orlanth took his Sword on the Quest, 
and the name of the sword is Humakt.  So when we start thinking of Humakt 
as a god, there are suddenly eight people on the trip...

A question for you to ponder: is "Humakt" the Sartarite/Theyalan word for 

I've been toying with a false etymology something along the lines of Old 
English here-mecht (Army-Maker). Allows some good variant names for 
elsewhere in the Barbarian Belt.  Could also be from Greek he makhe, or 
Conflict, if you want a Pelorian/Classical version.

Hmm, that's probably annoyed a lot of people...

for Tom Zunder:
If you ask me, the Five Arkats who make up his Second Coming in Ralios are 
his Brithini, Hrestoli, Humakti, Zorak Zorani and Gbaji personae.  Each 
initiation marks a new beginning, so there are five of him in all.

Note also the peculiar suggestion in Troll Gods ("The Birth of Arkat 
Kingtroll," one of the weird Jonstown Compendium extracts, pp.xiv ff.) that 
there were multiple Arkats; that he could split himself into four or five 
parts; that his companions were extensions of Arkat, often mistaken for 
their leader; etc.

A suggestion. We know Arkat meets himself while HeroQuesting, at least 
once.  Is it not possible that each successive initiation sees Arkat 
becoming whatever obstacle defeated him last time?  Though a Brithini, he 
cannot manage to overcome his mortality (so few of them can...).  So he 
becomes a mortal, but cannot then avoid death.  Next, of course, he becomes 
Death, but is unable to escape from the darkness that enfolds and permeates 
everything.  So he embraces his inner darkness, but finds himself facing 
the all-devouring Void of Chaos at the root of all things.  And we all know 
what happens next...

Sure, it's a simplistic model.  But if it's not actually True, it's at 
least superficially plausible, internally consistent, and has a nifty 
psychological feel to it.  I'll believe it, until something better comes 
along.  At which point I'll believe both versions.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Nick Brooke


~From: (William C Robertson)
~Subject: Binding (not the spell!)
~Date: 26 Apr 93 12:38:23 GMT

People are screaming for lay flat binding.  To heck with that; I want a
hardcover book!  My RQ 3 books are more or less intact because I keep them
in plastic bags, but my hardcover RQ 2 rules are still going after being
hauled in my backpack for years.  I'm willing to pay for it.  I want the



~From: (Charles C. Fu)
~Subject: critiques and Ken Rolston's reply
Message-ID: <>
~Date: 26 Apr 93 09:52:00 GMT

> 1. Alternate schemes of supplement organization.
> I am very satisfied with our current practice of publishing a few cults in
> each supplement, according to the needs of the supplement...

I can certainly see Ken's side in this issue. Having material grouped in this
way helps people new to RQ, allowing them to play more easily in a given
scenario. However, the modern day God Learners among us (myself included) would
prefer a different organization. As a compromise, perhaps cults, background,
and scenarios could be published in separate booklets in each set? Then, the
newbies would have the information needed to run his scenario, but the God
Learners could group all the cult booklets together, backgrounds together, and
only take relevant scenarios to gaming sessions.

I would rather have the ability to easily break apart and reorganize material
than to have lay flat binding. With booklets, the binding is not so critical
(just get all your cult booklets, punch holes in them if they don't come
prepunched, buy a durable folder at a stationery store, and voila!). Save the
lay flat binding for core material like the rules (what about a hardcover

On the boxed set vs books debate, clearly I favor books for rules and boxes for
scenarios. :-) I also like boxed sets because they usually contain AH's price
lists for current RQ material, including components of boxed sets. This is
important if a part becomes damaged or goes missing (someone seems to have
wandered off with part of my Genertela set) so that the entire set does not
need to be rebought. I also find my AH elite club membership (10% off AH
products by mail order) much less useful than it could be because of the lack
of availability of current comprehensive catalogues. Perhaps someone with a
current price list for RQ products could post it. Perhaps AH could distribute
catalogues to game stores.

> Why reprint old adventures? Don't you have them already? And if you don't,
> please realize that you are in desperate minority among RQ fans, and
> therefore not exactly a promising marketing target.

I accept this, too. Certainly most of the Glorantha die-hards I know have wads
of old RQII material. But if it is really not a significant market, perhaps the
rights to reprint RQII material (as is, perhaps) could be sold (or perhaps
official permission given for distribution of photocopies).

Complexity in RQ2/RQ3/RQ4/diet (but not caffeine free) RQ
I favor including optional rules if they are well-tested and marked as such.
Rules like the RQ2 slash, crush, and rock-throwing optional rules, in my
opinion, added little to the game and were unbalancing as well.

Rules like the engagement rules in the RQ4 draft (which seem _very_ close to
the rules in Steve Jackson's old game, _The Fantasy Trip_ - an excellent albeit
limited game, by the way) have many potential good effects (makes pole weapons
more different and useful tactically, forming up in ranks becomes more useful,
flanking is critical, having characters acting as reserves becomes more useful,
and so forth). I also know from having played TFT that these rules are
generally quickly absorbed and feel natural. However, I recognize and respect
that not everyone wants to deal with this level of complexity.

Be careful, however, to group optional rules intelligently or to provide short
explanations of potential effects of their use. For example, using the slashing
and crushing rules without giving spear users more abilities puts the Yelmalios
at a significant disadvantage. I think AH understands this (which is why the
impale/slash/crush rules have changed and changed again), but that not all GMs

A final note: _The Fantasy Trip_ also had a supplement which had nothing but an
index, errata, Q&A, and a compilation of useful tables for the rest of the game
material. It was a very valuable game aid.  (hint)

Cheers to Ken for the fine job he is doing!



~From: (David Cake)
~Subject: Re: Kingdom of War
Message-ID: <>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 08:27:38 GMT

	I am fairly sure (isn't it irritating not having your RQ books always
at hand when your reading your email at work?) that what it actually says 
about those great guys the Kingdom of War (in the World of Glorantha Players
Book, and probably other places) is that they worship all the gods of war. I
envisage them as being a collection of fighting orders, the leaders of the 
orders being the most feared, cooperation between fighting orders depending on
expediency and individual charisma and reputation. Lord Death on a Horse may
not be actually 'ruler' of the Kingdom of War, but may have a number of War
leaders who are willing to follow him.
	As it says 'all the gods of war' I take this to clearly include Humakt.
It also includes Zorak Zoran. Probably these two cults, along with sorcery
using orders, dominate the KOW. However other war gods will be represented
(Pole Star? Yanafals Tarnils or Yara Aranis? Wachaza river pirates?) and 
perhaps some small spirit cults or hero cults. I definately think that Humakt 
is well represented. I also think that it is a good place for Humakt heresies
to arise and thrive. In my campaign it included Humakti in who follow the
Lead Cross heroquest path (which allows you to create powerful undead killing
items, useful against ZZ, but advocates the killing of resurrect using Healers).
I think that in Paul Reilly's campaign it included the Humkti, who allowed 
Mallia worship. Perhaps even wilder Humakt heresies are possible (maybe an
extension of the weak connection between Humakti and ravens and wolves? Perhaps
cults that have tried to regain Humakts air powers?).
	The fact that the Kingdom of War contains Humakti, and that they may 
well take their honour as seriously as others, helps stop them being one
dimensional slavering evil style enemies. I personally really like the idea
of seeing how Humakti react to others who are honourable, but horrible heretics
(probably by duels to the death).
						Dave Cake


~From: (Ghost Dancer)
~Subject: The Paps
Message-ID: <9304270836.AA13729@Sun.COM>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 08:36:00 GMT

Hi all,

Whilst developing some notes for a future play session last night I kept 
finding that the adventure line seemed to lead to the Paps. It was then that I 
realised with horror that appart from the usual statement that the Paps is a 
large temple to the Earth mother with over a thousand priestesses I know 
absolutely nothing about it. Can anyone help???

What I could realy use is any worthwile references, especialy to maps, 
organisation, pictures, exact location of temple (the map in RoC is very vague).
Also if anyone has anything they have written up themselves that might be of 
some use I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

  /! \  Alternative
 /-!-/  Realities                 Jarec
/  ! \  Games Club                e-mail: SPB1@VMS.BTON.AC.UK

"Due to an imminent change of job I'll be off the net as of Friday so if there 
is anything you want to say to me say it now or forever wait till I buy a modem"


~Subject: Theology
Message-ID: <9304270915.AA16050@Sun.COM>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 08:09:41 GMT

Theology (or how to be provocative)

In most religions[As far as I can tell the ideal worshiper attempts to be as
like their god as possible; However, religions tell us that we are (as mere
mortals) unlikely to achive this high Ideal [else their would be no reverence
towards the god] so they provide assistance in
both moral, spiritual and physical by both the mechanics of the religion and
its theological background.

In Gloranthan religions the situation is improved as many have gifts and
geauses which assist in becoming the modle cultist.  I belive that characters
should be able to gain favor with their god by taking additional gaeuses if
they feel the need to do so, in return they mearly gain a rise in their internal
and external standing ("I understand that he's a devoted worshiper of yelmallio
and has taken a vow of celabacy"). Although such actions should not necessarily
cause the PC to expect favor from the god, no gifts or enhanced chances of
DI. I treat this in the same way as a character who tithes more than 10% of
his income.  Furthermore as the characters become more powerful in the cult
they become closely tied to the runes of the cult and through the powers of
these runes their personality shifts towards that of the god!

"Never talk about, religion or politics....."

David Ingram

      - "Its an ill wind that spoils the broth" 

From runequest Wed May  5 12:25:42 1993
From news@glorantha Tue Apr 27 17:17:12 1993
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 27 Apr 1993, part 2
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at

						-Henk Langeveld
Send Submissions to: 		    	
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM


~From: (L.P. Williams)
~Subject: Re: The RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 19 Apr 1993
~Date: 27 Apr 93 12:00:29 GMT

Why does everyone berate RQ2 for its simplicity. That's its charm. As for everyones
just the same they're not. It's the flavour of RQ2 that made it so popular. Each
cult is different in its identity. Similar? so are Christianity, Juadism ,
Islam, etc... . All the cults live in the same world and they're worshippers
have essencially the same requirements.

 On RQ2's saleability- Ever noticed how many   

        Wanted RQ2 supplements ....

                                            adds you see knocking about. 

 If you want a realistic game then buy Harnmaster it's as good as you get.

 Ir you want a game that is versatile with more flavour than a garlic sausage
pizza then play RQ2.

 I have read RQ4 draft and although it is an improvement on RQ3 it is over
complicated. The charm of RQ2 was the single goal- Further your chosen religion
(and kill trolls -whoops racial hatred! Try taking the garden yer wimps!!)
Not all this profession rubbish. Rolemaster springs to mind. Yuck!!

 Reprint RQ2 and see how it sells. It would.

 Also on Chaos. I've been thinking ( for once ) and it occurred to me - Why
should Stormbull Rune levels be effected by Chaos.
Their god wasn't when he battled with the devil and others.
Perhaps they should be immune.

On a lighter note- Has anyone noticed how TSR has "Boxed Set" printed on every
one of its new boxed sets. Thanks for letting me Know. I'd never of figured that
one out!!

   Eat copper staff and die Troll Scum!!



~From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 24 Apr 1993, part 2
Message-ID: <9304271129.AA20645@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 15:29:34 GMT

> From:
> Subject: Get ready for a big mail......
> Message-ID: <>
> Date: 24 Apr 93 02:02:41 GMT
> \documentstyle{article}
> \title{Cults of Steve }
> \author{Stephen Hunt}
> \begin{document}
> \maketitle
> \newpage
> \tableofcontents
> \newpage
> \section{\bf Cernein}
> Written by Kevin Burke and Stephen Hunt.
> \subsection {\bf Mythos and History}
> Cernein is the son of Aldrya and an unspecified war god, born during the
> confusion of the Gods age.  Disowned by his mother, who rejected his 
> existence because of the nature of his father, Cernein wandered the lands
> of the world as a nomad, always alone.

This single message was rather longer than some sites will
accept (notably AOL, and other commercial services).
Maybe it's something for soda.berkeley? 


~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 26 Apr 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9304271138.AA02257@serdlm1>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 11:38:53 GMT

 Just sitting here, doodling away when I thought of a new way of
learning spells which escapes from the D3 POW per point of spell rule.

 Regardless of whether a spell spirit is summoned via spell teaching, a
shaman or whatever, it has a POW of 3D6 say, and an INT (fixed) of 3D6.
The points of the sepll that it knows are equal to it's INT. The
summoning priest/shaman/sorceror commands the spirit into spirit combat
with the person who wants the spell, and away they go. For each time
the person succeeds in 'hitting' the spirit (using the new RQIV spirit
combat rules) he gets a point of the spell in addition to reducing the
spirit's m.p's.

 One of two things will happen: either the p.c will slaughter the
spirit, bring it down to 0 m.p's at which point the combat ends as he
can't interact with it anymore (there's not enough left to spiritually
'grab hold of and pummel'); or the P.C will realise that he's in
trouble. He'll probably ask the summoner to 'get this bloody thing off
of me!'. Now depending on the summoner's inclination he may or may not,
but if he decides to, then he must step in to the combat, and succeed
in a spirit combat roll to get the spirit's attention, thus allowing
the original bloke to escape. Heaven only knows what happens if the
summoner gets in trouble....

 The Spell Spirit will try and possess the body through instinct and if
successful will probably just sit around dribbling. Now imagine what
would happen if it was intelligent and got to possess a body. Imagine
how pissed off it would be.

 Anyway, I'm going to inflict, ahem, playtest this new rule with my lot
on Friday, so any comments people have would be gratefully appreciated (as always)

The only TRUTH is DEATH



~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 26 Apr 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9304271145.AA02320@serdlm1>
~Date: 27 Apr 93 11:45:20 GMT

 I noticed a lot of talk about large scale battles recently in the
digest. Well I'm currently trying to rig together a RQ Mass Combat
system. It's sort of like WarHammer, but don't let that put you off!!!

 Anyway, if anyone is interested in helping me playtest this or if
anyone out there has got a system of their own, please drop us a line.
Or better still, how's about discussing it on the digest?

The only TRUTH is DEATH