Bell Digest v930430

From runequest Wed May  5 12:25:57 1993
From news@glorantha Fri Apr 30 17:16:46 1993
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 93 17:15:14 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 30 Apr 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

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The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
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~From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
~Subject: Cernein
Message-ID: 
~Date: 29 Apr 93 15:18:09 GMT


It's yur cult so don't worry, BUT

Aldrya does all th stuff that you say the Priesthood does, therefore the
role is already filled. All elves are Aldrya initiates.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
                                        tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk 
                                                   How Illuminating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------

~From: jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor)
~Subject: Multiple CoP etc
Message-ID: <14308.9304291013@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
~Date: 29 Apr 93 03:21:03 GMT


                       Subject:                               Time:11:05 am
  OFFICE MEMO          Multiple CoP etc                       Date:29/4/93
icecw@asuacad (no real name) writes:
> why does  come with two different covers?
The white CoP with the people on the front is the original American edition.
The one with the colour map on the front is the Games Berkshop UK edition. The
American one is rarer, nicer (IMHO), etc. The multiple Snakepipes you have are
probably the original RQ2 one and the newer RQ3 reprint. Keep those originals
nice, you lucky lucky person, you!
Best find for me in recent years was the discovery not too long ago of a
pristine original Scorpion Hall in an obscure games shop in Manchester. The guy
behind the counter couldn't understand why I was grinning from ear to ear while
handing over the mere 5 quid ;-)))
czeers
Jase



---------------------

~From: MILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU (Loren J. Miller)
~Subject: sales of RoC and Sun County
Message-ID: <9304291847.AA24881@noc1.dccs.upenn.edu>
~Date: 29 Apr 93 18:44:00 GMT

mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace) writes in response to Ken Rolston:
> Ken, doesn't your focus on entry-level products, not fit with your
> statement that people that don't have RQ2 stuff are not a big market.

Rob has a good point. I would take it the other direction, though. Rob
doesn't think that entry level scenarios, such as RoC and Sun County,
appeal to seasoned RQ players because they repeat old material. I
agree, somewhat, but think that longtime players will still buy them
because they want the relatively small proportion of new material
*and* they don't want to ruin their valuable old collectors' items.
Rob concludes that AH should concentrate on deep background and
advanced scenarios because that will appeal to the longtime RQ
players. I think this is an important market segment to attack, but
it's only a significant market in England, the rest of europe, and in
Australia. There are too few active RQ players in the US to support
these kinds of products. Read the Petersen interview (or was it a
Stafford interview?) in TotRM for background on this. To sell in the
US you will need introductory products that appeal to new RQ players,
and you'll need to promote RQ3 so that new RQ players can find copies
easily. You need introductory scenarios for the US market and deep
background for the rest of the world. This suggests to me that AH
would profit by reprinting the old RQ2 scenarios with minor changes as
per the RQ3/RQ2 conversion rules and devoting most of their energy to
developing the deep background the rest of the world wants. The old
scenarios are perfect for beginners, and they are collectors items
that longtime players would also purchase so that they don't have to
get their pristine copies of Cults of Prax all dog-eared. The old
scenarios would not be dogs, they would not sit on the shelf, they
would sell to both groups. The only people who might lose money would
be the profiteers who have hoarded copies of the old scenarios and
force people who want to use them in games to pay collectors' prices.
Truth be told, I have no sympathy with their position. TSR republished
the giants adventures. AH can republish Pavis and Big Rubble.

> You mentioned to me at DunDraCon that Sun County, and RoC had not sold
> any better then Daughter's and Eldarad.  Perhaps this is one of the
> reasons.

I think the reason why Sun County and RoC didn't sell is because RQ
has been invisible for so long that nobody except the fanatics pay it
any attention. Hell, I couldn't convince *THE COMPLEAT STRATEGIST* to
even order ONE COPY of ROC so that I could buy it. The central store
kept saying that it wasn't out yet, and only in March, 4 months after
it was released, after a Wargames West catalog came out with it
prominently displayed, could the local store get NY to send them a
single copy which I promptly bought and took out of the store, leaving
them with 0 copies on display. If it isn't out on shelves then nobody
will buy it.

Also, if RQ isn't reviewed in magazines then new customers won't hear
about it and stores won't sell it. The store managers won't even order
single copies if it never gets magazine reviews. It used to be that
people like Ken Rolston and John Sapienza would review RQ products in
Dragon magazine, but after ten years of dismal products nobody paid it
any attention any more, not Dragon, which I believe would review RQ
products if they thought they were any good, and not White Wolf.
That's it for the pro mags. You have to get some reviews in pro
magazines to get people to buy it. Somehow the magazines need to get
reviews of RQ products, and then the stores need to order copies. I
realize that the fun part of managing the RQ line is the design part,
but Ken also has a tough job in front of him to promote RQ sales in
retail stores. For instance, it seems like he should be able to
convince The Compleat Strategist, which sells a LOT of Avalon Hill
games, to order at least two copies of all the RQ products for each
store.

How about it, Ken?

whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
S sign lists littles what wetland received in phire bonuse    --1M Monkeys

---------------------

~From: dustin@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (Dustin Tranberg)
~Subject: crits & impales
Message-ID: <199304291853.AA22574@earthquake.berkeley.edu>
~Date: 29 Apr 93 04:53:24 GMT


At least in RQ3, all crits are also specials.  For example, a 50% skill
yields criticals on 01-03 and specials on 01-10, so that a roll of 02
is both special and critical.  Therefore, a critical with an impaling
weapon does maximum possible impaling damage, no armor.  Ow.

See p.55 of the Player's Book for backup on this.

Dustin

---------------------

~From: henkl@holland.sun.com (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
~Subject: Re: May 29-31, 1993: Games Spectacular II, Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Message-ID: <1993Apr29.200054.7986@holland.sun.com>
~Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 20:00:54 GMT

In case this has not been announced elsewhere: ***


Games Spectacular II is a games show organised by 999 Games
and Compendium games in Amsterdam, The Netherlands.


~Date: May 29-31


    Saturday,	  May 29th	13:00-22:00
    Sunday,	  May 30th	09:00-22:00
    Monday,	  May 31th	09:00-18:00


Location:


    HET BEURSGEBOUW,  Lardinoisstraat 8, Eindhoven, The Netherlands.
    (Adjacent to Central Rail Station)


Featuring: (quoting from the original)
    
    "GS II will feature a unique American Games Pavilion where
    such famous companies as TSR, Game Designers Workshop,
    FASA, Chameleon Eclectic, Blacksurg Tactical, Theater of the 
    Mind, Wise Tree and perhaps Games Workshop, Avalon Hill,
    Iron Crown, Columbia, Chaosium and others will readily
    demonstrate their products to you."


Contact:

    
    For further details, including travel and lodging information,
    please write to:

	Michael Bruinsma		Roleplayers, please write to:
	999 Games			Compendium Games
	Rondeel 134			Hartenstraat 14
	1082 MH Amsterdam		1016 CB Amsterdam
	The Netherlands			
    					Call direct from the U.S.
	Or you may call or fax: 

	+31 20 6445794			011 +31 20 6381579
					011 +31 20 6260215 (fax)
	ET plus 6 hours
	PT plus 9 hours






*** I am not affiliated with either of Compendium Games
    or 999 Games.  They're the two leading professional
    gaming retail companies in the Netherlands.

    I cannot vouch for accuracy.  For exact details,
    contact the organisers by phone or FAX.


--
Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM			  disclaimer: My words, not Sun's	
[For info about the RuneQuest mailing list: |TM:  RuneQuest  is a  role-]
[RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM|playing game of Chaosium/AH]

---------------------

~From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
~Subject: Stuff
Message-ID: <930429221450_100116.2616_BHB50-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 29 Apr 93 22:14:50 GMT

A Rough Guide to Boldhome. The copies I have left are only available as competition 
prizes. We will no doubt over-print for the RQ Con in Baltimore so more may be available 
then. It is always going to be a limited edition book, until we find an AH supplement to fit 
the information into. 
There is also the Report on Boldhome book which is a series of 20 or so write-ups of 
player character experiences of the game. This is being laid out at the moment. However, 
I don't reckon on printing many unless there is a big demand and I can get my money 
back.

Slavery. Interestingly enough, Pamaltela has the chaos god of slavery, Ompalam. 
However, this god is not know in Genertela. This is possibly because slavery is seen as a 
"bad" thing in Pamaltela, whereas in Genertela it is no big deal and widespread. 

Cults. To quote Scott Schneider:
"Greg has acknowledged that all published cult write-ups in Gods of Glorantha, Sun 
County, River of Cradles, and White Wolf are all generalised, God Learner constructs, 
based on their unifying monomythic theories. The same deity worshipped in different 
lands, tribes, even clans may differ in their mythological traditions."

So the Lismelder version of Orlanth may differ radically from the Cult of Orlanth in RoC, 
and from that version followed by the Colymar, and most definately from that worshipped 
by Orlanthi in Ralios. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some Ralian Orlanthi even had 
elements of sorcery in their magic, for the classification of magic into spirit, divine and 
sorcery is also a God Learner construct! 

Of course, how playable all of this is depends on how much time you have! But it's 
something to bear in mind, and maybe aim towards.

>You mentioned to me at DunDraCon that Sun County, and RoC had not sold
>any better then Daughter's and Eldarad.  Perhaps this is one of the
>reasons.
>Rob Mace

I'd be very surprised is sales are disappointing in the UK - Tales sales are extremely 
healthy over here. However, almost all of the converts to the magazine do seem to be old 
RQers entering the fold again. But, if RQ can't attract new gamers in then it will die, and 
so the need for new entry level stuff rings true with me. From my own experience with 
Tales I am also mostly converted to the need for a high mix of scenarios - and new 
scenarios at that. Outside reader pressure forced me to aim to print at least one scenario 
per issue. 

But now I have to get back to editing one for #10!


---------------------

~From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
~Subject: The usual
Message-ID: <27996.9304300940@piglet.insignia.co.uk>
~Date: 30 Apr 93 02:50:31 GMT


Mail*Link(r) SMTP               The usual
> Ken, doesn't your focus on entry-level products, not fit with your
> statement that people that don't have RQ2 stuff are not a big market.
> If you are right that most of your market is the old RQ2 crowd, then
> I think it is a mistake to focus on entry-level products.  The vast
> majority of old RQ2 players I know are not interested in entry-level
> products.  Most are not interested in detailed scenarios.  They would
> rather see general Gloranthan info that they can more readily use in
> existing campaigns, be them low or high level.
I think in many ways Kens approach is correct. It is essential for the on going
growth of RQ/Glorantha that new players are continuously brought in, so first
timers must be encouraged. To do this AH need to get the basic system sorted
out and produce easy campagin packs so that new GMs have enough background to
start a game - exactly the sort of thing that Sun County (and Vikings and Land
of Nihon) does and the new rules will do. However the major problem that they
are going to run into is that Swords and Sorcery seem to be out of fashion in
roleplaying. Other than Dire&Drudgery how many other systems are flurishing?
The stuff that seems to be selling (or so I'm told by my local games purvayor)
is Vampyre, Werewolf and Cyberpunk style games. If this really is the case
worldwide, then it would make sense to put significant effort into supporting
the existing RQ user base ie the old school glorantha gamers. I don't think
reprints are the way forward but I'd like to see more books like SC which give
a good solid background for a campaign.

By the way I like the idea of cults being printed in a separate booklet,
unfortunatly this means that you'd have to do boxed sets and I hate boxed sets.
How about decent hardback books like D&D comes in. 

Probably the best way to present rules is like that done in another AH product
- Squad Leader. The rules there come in a ring binder and are easily ammended
by snapping in a replacment page (it is bloody expensive though).

Rules on CD ROM would be a good idea too. As long as thereis a version for the
Mac (suppose I could use SoftPC though). Actually rules in electronic form
would be great if you don't like a bit just hack it 'til it fits. Also do
searches on any subject -KoS would be a good candidate for electronic
distribution.

-- enough ---
>		To Neil Robinson who was asking about criticals and impales
> with a spear.  I had the same problem with my rapier and arrows etc..
>	My DM (Steve) is currently toying with the idea (or maybe he's decided,
> I dunno, haven't hit anything lately), of giving the player the choice of >
an impale or crit. when a critical is rolled.
Yeah, I've always run it this way - it seems to be ludicrous to punish a player
for rolling a crit.

>	Here's an optional rule that others might like to use.  In our games,
> if anyone fumbles they get to make the tea, coffee etc... 
Or better still has to go get some more cans of beer from the fridge/Off
Licence.

> Just make sure that your DM rolls for all the NPC's too :)  YOU HEAR THAT >
STEVE??  Make sure he doesn't do it behind the shield either ;)
GMs roll dice? I never even take mine to a session. Wing it for dramatic
effect.

Anyway
See Ya Later Boys & Girls

Ade

PS : Sorry to see you go Jarec - hurry back.





---------------------

~From: dickmj@essex.ac.uk
~Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 28 Apr 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9304301041.AA02371@serdlc13>
~Date: 30 Apr 93 10:41:35 GMT

 A message to Steve Thomas.

 Can you send me a message as CompuServe won't deliver my messages to
you, and I think that using the reply function should get round this.

-Matthew