Bell Digest v930510

From runequest Sat May 15 10:27:09 1993
From news@glorantha Mon May 10 17:17:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 10 May 93 17:15:26 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

This is the automated Daily RuneQuest Digest.

Send submissions only to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they
will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
~Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

						-Henk Langeveld
--
Send Submissions to: 		    	
Enquiries to:		  
The RuneQuest Daily is a spin-off of the RuneQuest Digest and deals
with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of
Glorantha.  			 Maintainer: Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM

---------------------

~From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
~Subject: Lhankor Mhy
Message-ID: <9305081515.AA09660@Sun.COM>
~Date: 7 May 93 07:53:55 GMT

>From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
>Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 04 May 1993, part 1
>Message-ID: <9305041624.AA05986@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
>Date: 4 May 93 16:24:01 GMT

>(Lhankor Mhy)  Information filing system equivalent to NINETEENTH CENTURY

? According to Cults of Prax the Lhankor Mhy filing system is terrible. It may
be sophisticated, but none of the scholars will reveal what system they use to
eachother.

Thom

    _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/  _/    Human Cognition Research Lab
   _/    _/  _/        _/    _/  _/     The Open University
  _/_/_/_/  _/        _/_/_/_/  _/      Milton Keynes MK7 6AA, U.K.
 _/    _/  _/        _/  _/    _/       Tel: +44 908 65-4518  Fax: -3169
_/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  Internet:T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk

---------------------

~From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
~Subject: Re: Reply to Allan Murphy & Nick Brooke
Message-ID: <9305082153.AA07872@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
~Date: 8 May 93 21:53:27 GMT



 I thought Allan's despcription of Humakti was great but I have to
show the ZZ side of things (we like to play Uz around here):

>Humakti:     "Hey, you spilt my pint."
>Zorak Zoran: "Aye, I did. It was on purpose, too."
>Humakti:     "Outside now."
>[ 4 or 5 strike ranks later ]
   ZZ comes back in along with a dozen or two of his mates and  a 
squashed body.

Zorak Zoran: Powzie all around.  And we'll want a chopping block and
some plates.
-------------------

  Nick says that Yanafil Tarnils has a special ritual for Oath-breaking.
I sort of agree but I think we already have this in the game system as
is.  I'd like to see a scene like the following:


    General Gareth finished reading the dispatch from Furthest and
  consigned it grimly to the flames.  He knew now what he must do.  He
  had given his Oath to the rebel tribesmen that if they laid down their
  arms they would be spared; sadly, the good of the Empire came first.
  Knowing the need for this action would make the executions no easier;
  he himself had grown up in an Orlanthi barbarian village much like
  those in these hills.  He shook his head, then called for his adjutant.
  "Bring me the unit commanders," he said to her, "for there is much to
  do this day.  And summon Aisha the Healer."  He hoped that Aisha would
  live up to her reputation and be able to perform the Resurrection, else
  his men would have a new commander come dawn.


- Paul Reilly

PS>  I am also preparing a bunch of other stuff, including a bit of
actual research on double-entry bookkeeping (actually originated in
Italy, the Hansa picked it up in the sixteenth century - duplicate
records was their big innovation.)  Sadly I must also work on my
thesis, so things are falling off the schedule.

  Oh, our kindly Henk asked for Hansa sources.  Many exist, here are a
few:
  Geshichte der Deutsche Hansa	- Barthold, Friedrich William
    19th German tome, language was surprisingly easy to follow.  Full of
    German patriotic sentiment - I think it was written around the time 
    of the Unification.

  German Hansa -  Dollinger
   Nice book, lots of pictures and maps.  You could run a whole Alternate
Earth Baltic Sea Traders Campaign out of this book.

  All for now. - p

---------------------

~From: james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us (James Kundert)
~Subject: Dyskund
Message-ID: <9305082333.AA00349@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
~Date: 8 May 93 23:33:55 GMT


Jason Proctor writes:
>> Ken Rolston wrote Dyskund Caverns
>Weeelllll..... perhaps partly. To give whoever it was his due, Dyskund
>Caverns was I suspect taken largely from an adventure called "Black Broo
>of Dyskund" in White Dwarf 52.

The newcomer (me) responds:
 Actually, it was in WD#51, and "whoever it was" (the author of the
original) _is_ Ken Rolston.  No "perhaps" about it. The WD version had
one of the best Scorpion Man pics I've yet seen.
Ah, those were the days.  When White Dwarf was a real magazine.  Sigh.

James Kundert
 james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us         <- preferred
 j.kundert@genie.geis.com

---------------------

~From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
~Subject: The "Rune Lore" Product
Message-ID: 
~Date: 9 May 93 05:07:45 GMT


MOB asked about this obscure product.  I do indeed have a copy.
Quick summary: you're not missing out on anything.

RUNE LORE is produced by:
Jontunheim Games Company
911 Crown Drive
Edmond, OK  73034

Production quality is pretty poor.  The print is old-style dot matrix, 
and it didn't reproduce terribly well.  The artwork is pretty 
amateur too.

The whole item is 66 pages.  The index

Alchemy
Avatars
Baolin - A small town adventure setting
The Battle of Ainen - A Humakti trial of faith
Broos
Courts
The Fair - combat and competition in the open air
Fist - a marital arts deity
Gambling
Mass combat system
Professionals - Assassins, Cults & Tools of the Trade
RuneQuest Revisions
Was that an impale? - a chart to calculate specials/crits for skills
	up to 500%
Play Sheets


The whole thing has the same feel as the _old_ D&D supplements that
came out right at the very start of the hobby.  You know, when nobody
knew what was going on?

I would have to say that I don't think I'd ever be inclined to use
an any of this material.  While there are some Gloranthan references, 
I would label it strictly "Gateway."  To sound totally elitist 
(look what reading the Digest has done to me!), the level of 
sophisitication of all the material is very low.

BUT, with all that said, the soft part of my heart says that I 
appreciate them putting it out.  I respect that they at least
_tried_.  Their effort shows a sincere devotion to RuneQuest,
and for that I have to give them credit.

Oh yeah, "they" are:

Mike Douglas: Creation, Design & Art
Playtesters: Tony Bingham, John Gibson, Matt Merits & Ray Sevits

If you'd like to see the ad, it's on page 45 of White Wolf #34.

If you'd like a copy, send $6.50 to the address listed above.

-David Cheng


---------------------

~From: mace@lum.asd.sgi.com (Rob Mace)
~Subject: Re: Humakti Behaviour
Message-ID: <9305090931.AA25790@lum.asd.sgi.com>
~Date: 8 May 93 19:31:45 GMT

Allan Murphy write:
> Humakti Behaviour: I always think of Humakti as sort of Clint Eastwood types.
> They could kill lots of people if they really felt like it, but don't unless
> provoked, and even then they'll give you your chance. Normally a chance is
> useless since they are good at what they do. You know, mean and moody,
> don't say much, carry a .44 magnum ( well, iron greatsword then ).

This is not a bad description of my Humakti Hero.

> Humakti:     "Hey, you spilt my pint."
> Zorak Zoran: "Aye, I did. It was on purpose, too."
> Humakti:     "Outside now."
> [ 4 or 5 strike ranks later ]
> Humakti:     "Another mineral water please."  { Remember, they don't drink }

Every Humakti will develop their own line for how much of a chance they
feel they need to give others before they kill them.  At this point my
Humakti Hero will explain to the offending party that he will kill them
if they do that again.  Just telling them to step out side he considers
about equivalent to an ambush as he would really not be giving them any
type of chance.

> They certainly don't go around slaughtering people randomly, anyway. How
> do others define Humakti behaviour and codes of conduct ? Sometimes Humakti
> PCs get in trouble - a lot of adventures require sneaking and hiding,
> assassination...exactly the sort of thing Humakti *hate*. WHat can they do
> in these situations ? The Humakti player makes the coffee, and gets to look
> up the fumble tables and obscure rules all day... :-)
> 
> Orlanthi: "Here comes a patrol ! Everyone down !" [ whispering ]
> Humakti:  "Hold on, I'll speak to them."          [ in a loud voice ]
>           "OUt of my way, or I will kill you all."
> Orlanthi: "Aww, gaawd."

What constitutes an ambush I consider to be an open topic of discussion
in Humakti temples.  For example:

    If you come across an enemy camp how much warning must you give them
    before attacking?  Some argue that the enemy must be allowed to fully
    prepare and form up ranks.  Others would say that you only need to
    make your presence known to their sentries before attacking.

    Another topic of discussion is when it is permissible to use such things
    as hidden pits in fortifying an area.  Some argue that it is never
    permissible.  And others argue that if the attackers know they are
    attacking a defended place that they should know that pits might exist
    and so it is not an ambush.  Of course Humakti with an appropriate geas
    would not use a pit anyway.

Some Humakti have taken to posting an area as a war zone so that enemies
know that they are open to attack by entering the area.

Where as the Humakti will debate such issues, the decision is ultimately
left up to the individual Humakti.  If you believe it is an ambush, it is.

Rob Mace

Gorbic, Hero of Humakt, Protector of Duck Point, Lord Death on Two Webbed Feet





---------------------

~From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
~Subject: Tales Submissions
Message-ID: <930509123844_100116.2616_BHB39-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 9 May 93 12:38:44 GMT

E-Mail submissions to Tales of the Reaching Moon:

Before making a submission over E-Mail please send a message briefly 
summarizing the submission, and giving some idea of its length. Bear in 
mind that fully formatted and laid out submissions give a better 
impression, and therefore sending the work by snail-mail usually meets with 
greater success. Maps and diagrams cannot be satisfactorily sent over 
E-mail.

When sending the full submission, include your name, postal address, and 
E-Mail address in the body of the text. Send submissions in ASCII format. 

For those on CompuServe we can accept MS Word for Windows files (and some 
other DOS based WP's) in binary format, and artwork in GIF format. 

Addresses:

David Hall	100116.2616@compuserve.com
Michael O'Brien	mobtotrm@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au

Artwork queries and GIF files:

Steve Thomas	100024.2243@compuserve.com

For guidance on what we are looking for in submissions please write 
enclosing an SSAE to the editorial address, or your local Tales Rep, for a 
copy of our Writer's Submission guidelines. 

We are currently seeking articles for a Pamaltelan issue, and for Military, 
Magical and Malkioni issues. The last three are still at an early planning 
stage. 

---------------------

~From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
~Subject: Digest
Message-ID: <930509134551_100116.2616_BHB47-1@CompuServe.COM>
~Date: 9 May 93 13:45:51 GMT

Tales of the Reaching Moon, Issue 10. This is plodding along. We still hope to publish it 
in the UK at the end of the month. I hope to have The Collected Griselda and a reprint of 
issue #5 out at the same time. 

Adrian Brownlow: Your subscription ends after #10.

As a fellow accountant, I agree with Nick Brooke about double-entry bookeeping. 
Balance is the key, debits and credits. We are in fact the ballet dancers of the Financial 
Services Sector. Since balance is a feature of the Moon, then it must be that the secret 
of the financial success of the Etyries cult is down to DEB. Another reason for the 
eventual triumph of the Reaching Moon. 

Kargan Tor, God of War and Courage; the Separator, Maker of Death. He was one of the 
original Celestial Court, and he deserted his post and allowed the devil to enter the 
Spike, so bringing its End. According to WF#5, within the New Age of Time the rulers of 
the old cosmos have no place. Yet they "are often visible through thin disguises of 
costume or custom, still worshipped as of old." I suggest that Kargan Tor is very unlikely 
to be worshipped as such, except through his various guises: Death, Humakt, Polaris, 
Zorak Zoran, etc. 

Cheers,

David Hall


---------------------

~From: joe@tpki.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
~Subject: Re: Glo/Earth-parallels
Message-ID: 
~Date: 9 May 93 16:23:54 GMT

jason@insignia.co.uk (Jason Proctor) wrote:
> Subject: Re: Glorantha mimics Earth
> Date: 7 May 93 09:53:21 GMT
> 
>> do any armies march skyclad (stark staring naked) into combat?
> In nice warm Prax, perhaps, but as for Dagori Inkarth or Balazar, well, it's
> enough to chip the ends off your pointy bits...
  
Well, Orlanthi having a Wind Lord cast "Bless Woad" for them most certainly 
do! 

They always strike me as the only celtic fiction in english language 
roleplaying backgrounds. Never mind the anglosaxon Thanes, Ceorls etc. ranks 
like these were common in celtic tribes, too. THen there's their exterior: 
big drooping moustaches, spiky hair, quite often red (especially with female 
warriors). Orlanth is sporting a charioteer (Mastakos), also typical celtic. 
(BTW: do Orlanthi chieftains drive around in chariots, too?)

And, naggingly, back to a question I asked earlier: how do I have to imagine 
sartarite cities? Are they reflections of celtic oppida like Manching by 
Munich or Alesia in France? Or must I expect more medieval style towns, like 
Caernarfon aka City of Carse?

And a note of approval to Paul's thoughts on magic:
 
> From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu
> Subject: Re: Crunchy Magic with Extra Flavor
> Message-ID: <9305071542.AA07105@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu>
> Date: 7 May 93 15:42:46 GMT
> 
> 
>   Sometimes when playing RQ we find that magic, represented mechanically
> in the game system, has los something of its 'mystic' flavor. 

Too true. We (some guys preparing a tournament in Germany) have encountered 
the same problem, especially with the mechanistic spells like enhance 
stat/skill/damage (be it spirit, divine or sorcerous magic).
I'd like a more versatile system for sorcery in RQ4, btw; Pauls Laws ought 
to give some ideas there and OUGHT TO BE INCLUDED as optional rules (at 
least).

-- 
Joerg Baumgartner		joe@tpki.toppoint.de
2300 Kiel
				Free INT - Das RuneQuest-Magazin

---------------------

~From: marks@slough.mit.edu (Mark S. c/o Tom Yates)
~Subject: What is Loskalm like, Morality, Misc.
Message-ID: <9305091711.AA13881@Sun.COM>
~Date: 9 May 93 17:14:36 GMT

                           Loskalm, or
                     Hey, Nick, can we talk?

     So, where to start?  Hmmm, differences first, followed by an
approach to common ground later.

     When game designers write that Loskalm is "rich, stable and
confident of its future", and "has produced a fair and
integrated society" I assume that they actually mean what they
say.  The Gernertela book is source material  designed to
explain Glorantha to game masters.  It is not some strange self
contradictory fragment in scribbled in Jalk's book.  I do not see
how one can talk meaningfully about Glorantha if one assumes
that none of the published material is reliable.  Nor do I see
how it is possible to reconcile the above description of Loskalm
with the notion that the kingdom is a MacCarthyite Nazi state
that denies the possibility of natural human behavior and is on
the verge of collapse.  Would one be saying anything
comprehensible if one claimed that the Lunar Empire is a
conservative homogeneous nation whose influence on world affairs
has waned in the third age?

	This is not to say that I think that Loskalm should be
played as an unremittingly cheerful generic Lawful Good Kingdom
(tm).  There are all sorts of people with all sorts of goals and
beliefs in a nation of over three million people.  The themes you
have mentioned are not totally foreign to my campaign.  I don't
believe we've played a session where the proper relation between
Hrestoli and outsiders has not come up.  To a large extent Sir
Meriatan is antagonist in my campaign.  An antagonist whose
agents can not be confounded as "directly" as the minions of Lord
Death on a Horse.  Nor have I missed the xenophobic
possibilities.  My players once apprehended a Lunar missionary. 
They later were ordered to execute him, to literally burn him at
the stake.  As Westerners might say, Perfection is in Solace, not
the world.  But acknowledging shades of grey does not mean that
all the world is uniformly grey.

	By the by, I read and enjoyed your review of King of Sartar
in TOTRM.  So what the heck do you think happened in the end? 
How and why did Argrath change magic and the gods?

                     A question of morality?

     In Shadows on the Borderland there is a situation in which
the player character will have to undertake actions "brutal and
horrific by modern standards".  As I mentioned above, my players
once burnt a Lunar missionary at the stake.  What troublesome
ethical dilemmas  have you all seen come up in play?  (other than
the normal role-playing behavior like killing people and taking
their stuff :-)

Other matters

MOB: Yes, please feel free.  It would be an honor to have my
Pentians on the moon crack enshrined as a rumor.

Paul Reilly: The predator info sounds neat, please post!  RAEBNC
your "Laws of Magic"

Jason Proctor: Regarding the Dyskund Caverns, Ken Rolston was
given sole credit in Shadows.

---------------------

~From: DO9EA00@sysa.computing-services.manchester-metropolitan-university.ac.uk
~Subject: Humakti/Zorak Zoran
Message-ID: <9305100934.AA24100@Sun.COM>
~Date: 10 May 93 08:17:50 GMT

Allan Murphy writes conserning an slight argument between a Zorak Zoran
worshiper and a Humakti. Having pitted serveral ZZ worshipers against
Humakties our market research department indicates the following conversation

Humakti: "You spilled my mineral water"
ZZ: "Yes I meant to and just to prove i did" (ZZ Eats the horn drinking vessel)
Humakti: "Step outside"
[4/5 strike ranks later]
ZZ: "Barman, could I have a nice chianti to wash down this Humakti's heart."

Lord Snarltooth Skullcrusher Zorak Zoran Ministry of Truth: Castle of Lead.
                                                    ^
                                         (for the disposal of worshipers of)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Ingram

      - "You can blow someone up on a beach; but you cant make a horse drink"
  


---------------------

~From: bell@cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
~Subject: Cults book and distributing adventures
Message-ID: <9305101431.AA07179@degas.cs.unc.edu>
~Date: 10 May 93 06:31:21 GMT

> From: ade@insignia.co.uk (Adrian Brownlow)
> Subject: Lots of things

> AH & Chaosism are absolutely right to publish the cults in the way they do.

Or at least, it's good for the new RQer.

> What I think AH will probably do if (and it is a _big_ if) RQ takes off again
> is print up cult books at a later date. This will involve lifting cults from
> the senario books (SC RoC Borderlands) adding background, subcults etc etc
> and marketing it as an optional source.

let's just hope they would add a fair bit of stuff, rather than just
pretty much reduplicating stuff as per the Kyger Litor write-up...  If
they add things like details about a sample temple of each size, a few
priests, lords, and initiates, a few cult heroquest details, more stories,
etc., then we'd have a fine supplement.  Perhaps a "Temples of Pavis"
book, etc.

> From: S.Phillips@vme.glasgow.ac.uk
> Subject: Being "Gregged"..

> The idea of a Font set of runes exites me beyond belief! Am I a
> sad individual? Or have a just spent too long scribbling them on
> everything.

Not at all.  I believe it was Paul Reilly who said that his "Predator
Pack" was turned down by Avalon Hill; I'd love to have that put into
postscript form with nifty runes and everything, looking as much like
the published RQ stuff as possible, and distributed as a PD-RuneQuest
thing.  Perhaps the ToTRM folks would be interested in being a central
point for diskette distribution of free/shareware RuneQuest stuff.

Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu


---------------------

~From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
~Subject: missing articles (e.g. Mystic Musk Ox)
Message-ID: <9305101513.AA04020@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
~Date: 10 May 93 19:13:35 GMT


I discovered a bug in my digesting software which caused messages
containing a single dot on a line to be truncated.  Silly me.

That has been fixed.  Sometime this week I will
check which messages were sent to the bit bucket.
I will then resend those.

apologies,

--
Henk