Bell Digest v930518

From news@glorantha Tue May 18 17:16:24 1993
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Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:15:21 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

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From: (boris)
Subject: Re: Jottings, Fun With Humakt, round 5?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 May 93 15:47:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 784

  100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) wrote:
> Subject: Jottings
> The Sword would seem to be the most common 
> Orlanthi image of Humakt, and was wielded by Orlanth, whereas the 
> Westerners are always trying to make Things into People as part of their 
> de-mythologising Euhemerising "rationalisation" of the universe.  I'd have 
> thought "Humct the Soldier" (*not* as horrible as described in the 
> Prosopaedia: this is his followers' version) was the cult brought East by 
> Arkat, who found there that he could wield the Sword of Orlanth (which may 
> or may not have been called Humakt before his arrival).  Some clever bugger 
> (probably a God Learner) then hypothesised that Humakt was Orlanth's 
> long-lost brother -- and heroquested to make it so.

  Okay, let's run with this.  So, the "original" Death myth (if such has any
  meaning after God Learner meddling) would be, I guess, as follows.  Eurmal
  finds Death, as we know.  He shows it to his friend Old Man, who agrees to
  try it, and then Eurmal uses it on him.  Orlanth sees this, and decides to
  use this to dry gulch Yelm.  Eurmal steals it back from Orlanth, loses it
  to High King Elf in a wager, causes him to drop into the hands of Ironman
  the Mostali, stole it from him and traded it to ZZ.  It passed though many
  hands, and many copies were made by Eurmal and passed around.  Eventually
  Orlanth discovered the original in Hell; "Humakt was there; dull, rusty
  and broken" (KoS, p87).  He claimed it, and to keep it safe, placed it in
  his hall.  Arkat heroquested to find it, and used it against Gbaji.  And
  the rest is as you have it.  How's that for retro-fitting myth?

> "The Star Spangled Banner" is surely more appropriate for Sartar.  Not only 
> do you have the same Colonial lifestyle (backward barbarism, rebellion 
> against their rightful rulers, etc.) and rustic love of independence 
> (humble log cabins, local sherrufs keeping Laura Norder, kiddies running 
> down from the hills shouting "the Redcloaks are coming"); you've also got 
> several of the lines of Argrath's anthem:
> 	"Oh, say can you see, by the Theyalan Light,
> 	What so proudly we hailed at Rausa's last grieving?"
> 		... I'm open to suggestions ...
> 	"And the Red Lunar glare, meteors bursting in Air,
> 	Gave proof through the Night that our flag was still there.
> 	Oh, say, does that Wyrm-Tangled Banner unfold,
> 	O'er the Land of the Free, and the Home of the Bold?"

  How about:
        "The Bold Wyrm standing high, it's own tail giving bite,
         Oer the Quinvin peaks high we saw valiantly streaming.

 Boris Mikey, aka        |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive
 Maurice Beyke           | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if        | you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire."
 Intergraph doesn't want                                      Nietzsche
   my opinions.


From: (boris)
Subject: Re: Seasonal or Yearly Recovery of Runemagics
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 May 93 16:22:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 785

  100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) wrote:
> So: Initiates with annual use of Rune magic (renewed at High Holy Days 
> only).  Acolytes as an in-between step, seasonal Rune magic (renewed at 
> Holy Days), but only if they're working full-time for the cult that season. 
>  Rune Lords with seasonal Rune Magic, otherwise unchanged.  Rune Priests 
> possibly with tougher entrance requirements: for one, they might have to 
> have 5 points of Rune magic that's "useful to the cult" rather than "useful 
> in the game"; say, one point each of Worship, Sanctify, Spellteaching, 
> Divination, and Initiation (a basic portfolio for most working priests)?  
> Then they too would have seasonal use of Rune Magic, perhaps with the 
> option of taking days off to pray for faster return (as at present in RQ3).

  So how would you work this?  If you attend worship, and the officiating
  priest "successfully" conducts the ceremony, you get back any reusable
  runemagics you cast in the preceding period (year for initiates, season for
  Lords, Priests and active acolytes)?  And then priests may also regain
  spells in between times by spending 1 day/point of spell?

  This has aspects I like, but I think that I would still limit initiates (as
  some have suggested) to only regaining 1 point spells; limit acolytes to
  regaining only 2 point spells, and Lords and priests may recover spells of
  any level.  I'm not sure how to do stackable spells.  And I always thought
  that before you could be a priest, you had to be able to perform the
  functions of one, so you had to get Worship, Sanctify, Spellteaching,
  Divination, and Soul Sight.  (Is Initiation a spell?  It makes sense, but I
  don't recall it).

  A final question: does Sactify have to be cast again each time a worship is
  held to get the benefits, or once cast, is it permanant at that site until
  desecrated/dispelled?  I always assumed it was permanant, but something I
  read in Shadows seemed to imply otherwise.

  Anyway, that's all for now, other than for me also to express my love of
  this list.  Thanks Hank (and Andrew, beform him).
 Boris Mikey, aka        |"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive
 Maurice Beyke           | for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if        | you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire."
 Intergraph doesn't want                                      Nietzsche
   my opinions.


From: (Brian Hebert)
Subject: Duck Cult - Missing segment
Message-ID: <76469.hebert@uclink.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 17 May 93 04:14:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 786

>The meeting at the birth of the race was cut short for some unknown reason
>could that bit be resent?

Glad you noticed.  Here is the corrected text:


In order to accomplish these goals, they were forced to strike away
from the Path's of Humakt and Eurmal into the uncharted realms of myth.
Many and great were the dangers.  Dha-Naald was forced to slay so often
that he grew sick of death.  Dha-Fhee used all his Trickster powers to
negotiate the hazards he encountered until he was weary and without any
remaining guile or wit.  Finally each found the place they sought --
simultaneously.  They faced each other over a nest of four eggs ready to
hatch.  Dha-Naald made as if to slay Dha-Fhee but could not.  Dha-Fhee
plotted to lead his brother away from the nest but could think of no
suitable subterfuge.  Each settled down to a single egg and began to work
the magics they had prepared.  Dha-Naald's egg hatched first and from it
emerged a perfectly formed water fowl, no larger than a hare.  It leaped
upward into the sky and flew away.  Dha-Fhee's egg hatched next.  It
contained a perfectly formed man who stood and looked about and walked
away.  Again the two brothers faced each other across the nest.  Only two
eggs remained and, fearing for the very existence of the Duck race, both
brothers stayed their hands from meddling further.

They sat then and watched the birth of Father and Mother Duck and
rejoiced in their perfection.  Their questions over duck nature remained
unanswered, their private hopes denied, but the two brothers reached a
pact there at the birthplace of their race.  They forged a bond of
harmony between them and took it within themselves where it worked great
good at healing all their buried pains and fears.  They returned to the
mortal world and founded their cult together.


Someone remarked on the weakness of that last sentence as the foundation for
a cult and I agree.  I'm not entirely clear on how apotheosis is supposed to
work.  Can anyone illuminate me?  ;')

I have a Balazar based scenario I could post, but I haven't seen many
scenarios and I don't want to take up space with inappropriate stuff.
Any interest?

Brian Hebert


Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 17 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 May 93 17:42:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 787

Paul Reilly here.

  Curtis Shenton writes:

> ...the Green Moon! After
> all we've got red and blue now we need the last primary color. Has this
> ever been discussed before? 

  Around here we've played with this idea for years - another currently
completely unknown Moon aspect.  I'd say that there are several possible
good ideas here:
  1. No Green Moon - Maybe the Red Moon is red like a red star rather than
a laser and includes the Green energies.
  2.  Green Moon energies have been scattered through the cosmos and need
to be recollected via the ritual which will unite the Red and Blue Moons.
Perhaps some of these energies are in the green star (Dragon's Eye or 
some such) associated with Orlanth's Ring and this is secretly the main
reason for conquering Orlanth!
  3.  Green Moon energies are associated with plants and/or copper and
this helps to explain the firestorms engineered by the Lunars and their
allies in Rist and Erigia.
  4.  Green Lunar energies and/or rocks were scattered to the edge of the
Universe and need to be recovered by Heroquest.
  5.  Green Lunar energy resides not in rocks (like Red and Blue) but instead
mingled with Water and ran down to the Sea.  This would explain nicely the
'yearning' of sea water to be reunited with the Blue Moon - I rather
like this one.

  Other Lunar ideas:
  I have a friend (Mike Holliday) who suggests that the Mostali, who after
all claim to have constructed the Red Moon, designed to exactly plug the
hole at the bottom of Magasta's Pool.  He also has many other more
serious suggestions, but I like this one because I think it captures something
about Mostali thinking.   At some level of reality they are down there
operating the switches for geysers, volcanoes, etc.

  He is working on a write-up of Ghosts as used in the Lunar Military, along
with Regimental Standards (you can 'buy' promotions by adding to the
Enchantments on these, so they get pretty powerful) and Cohort Spirit Cults.
When he is done I will try to post these to the Net.

  More later / Paul


From: dg557@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Justin Ronald Cann)
Subject: Roundless Combat
Message-ID: <9305171841.AA14586@hela.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: 17 May 93 10:41:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 788

Adam  writes:
>Strike Ranks:
>Has anybody ever tried having 100 SRs rather than just 10? The idea
>that somebody goes in SR2 then in SR5, then SR8, then SR2,rather than
>SR1, seems a bit illogical. It would require more book keeping, but
>over all would be more realistic. It would also allow poisons to
>take effect within an alloted time rather than at the end of a combat
   IUve discarded the melee round almost entirely.  The only remnant is 
that every ten SR everyone in the fight looses their one Fatigue point.  
The melee SRM+ the Weapon SRM gives the number os SR that a 
character must take to ready another attack or parry.  Dodges can be 
re-readied in DEX SRM + 2 SR total SR.  A character can have any two 
Dodges, Attacks or Parries ready.
   So for example, if a character has DEX SRM 3, SIZ SRM 2, and a 
rapier (Weapon SRM 2) she will Attack on SR 7 of the combat.  She 
will be ready to Dodge by SR 5, or she could be ready to Parry by 
SR 7.  She wisely chooses to Dodge on SR 6 against an Attack from 
her opponent.  After this, her player can declare that she will prepare 
to Dodge again.  She will be ready to Dodge again on SR 11.  On SR 7 
She attacks her opponent.  Her player declares that she will re-ready 
her rapier attack.  She will be able to attack again on SR 14.  On SR 
10 she and her opponent loose one point of Fatigue.
   The only criticism that I have of my own system is that it can tend 
to make the fast faster and the slow slower.  For example I have a 
character in my campaign who has SRs of 5 and 6 in Rapier and 
Main Gauche.  She attacks with both almost always, only parrying 
when things look bad.  Oh well, some people are faster than others!

>From Moonpile at Freenet.
You can also e-mail me at:


From: (Tim Posney)
Subject: Re:  RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 17 May 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 May 93 18:52:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 789

Just a short note on 'realistic combat'. I recently started a new
group of players using the RQIV.2 rules and the combat went extremeley
Some things that happened.
	One player, who happened to have a good skill in 2H-spear, impaled
one opponent in the head (killing him) and the grabbed his second spear,
a little later impaling the shield of another. He had then run out of
spears, picked up a mace lying on the ground and using base chances
beat the remaining foe to death.

This was most satisfying for all concerned. In fact this player gave
up all parries to attempt to hit as often as possible. (A fairly good
match to his non-game personality).

One of the opponents made a very bad fumble and disabled themselves with
a misplaced blow to the groin.

This coupled with the fact that big nasty looking creatures are actually big
and nasty in combat made for a good time had by all.

So, I still think RQ combat (especially the IV rules) give by far the best
feel to combat. Not necessarily realistic but good to play.
regards tim


From: (johnjmedway)
Subject: nonstuff and sense
Message-ID: <>
Date: 17 May 93 21:06:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 790

>>  From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
>>  Subject: Stuff and Nonsense
>>  I hate POW gain rolls because -- if played by the rules -- they hand out a 
>>  disproportionate reward for what is usually a one-off, insignificant or 
>>  flukey action on the part of a player character.  I'd prefer to play them 
>>  as something like the SAN Regained rewards from Call of Cthulhu -- at the 
>>  end of any adventure, the GM can hand out points of POW based on what the 
>>  characters *achieved* in the eyes of the gods, the spirits and the world.  

Or like the concept of Glory (or was it Honour) in Pendragon. For those who
graft the Pendragon personality traits onto RQ (a ls PenDragon Pass), it only 
makes sense that a religious bonus would augment the character's POW.

>>  Otherwise, it's wide-open to the "let's get a tick in every weapon skill 
>>  every week" effect, only more so (because more gain results).  Players will 
>>  cast the odd offensive spell purely to get a POW gain check; the chance of 

I've seen StormBull types cast all their battle prep spells, with the exception
of fanaticism, and then stand there to pop off a disruption at a broo, just for
the power gain roll. The reward is just too great for such trivial behavior.
(Like Rob Smith mentioned, good roleplaying would avoid this problem, but we 
 don't need RQ for our games unless it helps the game.)

>>  your own temple, I'd prefer to see some GM fiat and discretion.  Especially 

Also as an option, allow the players to each vote for one person out of the 
group to get a point (or for that matter a roll). 

-     -     -     -     ---john j medway-----------     -     -     -     -
--   - -   - -   - - -   - -   - -   - -   --
--- -   - -   - -   - ---landmark/zycor----------   - -   - -   - -   - ---
----     -     -     ---512/292-2325------------     -     -     -     ----


From: (Curtis Shenton)
Subject: White Moon=Yelm+Red Moon+Blue Moon?
Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 May 93 04:43:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 791

Ok I got a bit confused with which colors are primary.... But I still
think this could be an interesting avenue of discussion. Since the 3rd
color needed to create white in the primary color scheme is yellow it
could be be that Yelm is part of the White Moon prophesy.
	An interesting White Moon cult could be based on the idea that
the coming of the White Moon signals the end of Time or at least a
change in Time. When the Lunar way combines with Yelm then once again
the sun(the new white moon) will not move from it's place in the sky.
Heck you could even have a cult of variant White Moon cultists who claim
that the White Moon was Yelm and he was split into three aspects when
Orlanth killed him.
    This Yelm plus Red Moon plus Blue Moon scheme also covers most of the
elements. Yelm is sky of course, the Red Moon seeks to take over Air,
the Blue Moon is darkness, and it while it's a bit thin the connection
of the Blue Moon to tides could be a link to Sea, which still leaves
Earth of course. This sort of fits the White Moon prophesies I remember,
the White Moon cult in the Lunar Empire thinks the Red Moon will become
the White Moon and the Mostali claim that the White Moon will come after
the Red Moon after it has moved across the sky. Are their any other bits
of Gloranthan lore that deal with the White Moon? 
Curtis Shenton internet              Too lazy to do a
	       4@3091 WWIVnet				"real" .sig file
Currently working on a war of the gods adventure for WotC. If you're
intrested email with SUBSCRIBE LOC-L 


From: (Roger Nolan)
Subject: moons
Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 May 93 11:14:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 792

> Green Moon

Perhaps the Aldryami would have something to do with this - a  
promised forest safe from the Uz far from all the bad things in  
Glorantha. The first Elf in the Moon?


From: (Roger Nolan)
Subject: Melee
Message-ID: <>
Date: 18 May 93 11:38:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 793

>...attack , parry, attack....

The way I have tried to solve this is to try and give out "random"  
attack bonuses to players for each round to give the combat more flow  
and encourage role play in the melee...

"Hmm, fumble....OK, the Uz swings his mace wild stumbles and  
drops to one knee, he is obviously ready to parry your sword but you  
could kick him fairly easily"
"Yeah, I'll kick and bring the sword down on his head"
"Not quite so easy, you get +30% kick if you want it and I'll not  
penalise you for an aimed kick. Sword attack is +5 location -10% if  
you kick at the same time"
"Cool, I kick the f****r in the 'n**s. No more trollkin curse for you  
me old son!"
"OK, roll"

"Excellent, 4 points to the pods"
"Good, unfortunately trolls don't have exterhal genitalia, Boink!"
"Oh yes they do, page 49 of Trollpack book 2 contains a complete...."
"OK OK the troll doubles up, and falls to your left, you could give  
him a nice whack with your shield as he falls"

The only problem is that for more than about 2 players it just gets  
too complicated to remember enough detail on what people are doing to  
give a combat this much detail...



Subject: Re: Mass combat
Message-ID: <9305180949.AA02229@serdlc13>
Date: 18 May 93 09:49:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 794

>Anyone have any idea of what battle formations would be used in Glorantha?  I'm
>toying with the idea of RQ Battle for my own use - I noted the comment earlier 
>on about someone needing playtesters for a system....I'd like to offer my (self >as
>a tester.\

 O.K, welcome to the wonderful world of probability theory. Today's
lecture is about stochastic control, confidence intervals and queueing
theory as applied to deadlines. In English, what I'm trying to say it
that I've got an exam on Friday, and so mass combat has taken a back
seat for a while, but never fear because on Saturday, me and a few
mates are coming down to the Uni to type in what we've got so far, so I
am 95% certain that you (and others) will have received something by Monday.

 Until then, good luck with the exams


p.s I tried to send this to you direct, but the machine didn't like the address.