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Date: Fri, 21 May 93 17:15:11 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 May 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: O
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
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Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 May 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <9305201555.AA09121@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
Date: 20 May 93 15:55:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 828
> From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
> Subject: Lunar Cults & Founders
>
> But it is noteworthy that, whenever we know the cultic origin of one of the
> Seven Mothers, the cult of that Mother is a fairly solid Lunar version of
> the original cult. I'd guess the Seven Mothers had already "made their
> choices" (in Jeff's phrase) *before* participating in the ritual that
> created the Red Goddess. They stole, used and abused the powers of their
> original cults. (Insert here any bits of the debate on spirits of
> retribution that tickle your fancy).
I think you are probably right here. There is another question that can
be asked: when were those choices made -- at the time of the ritual that
found She Who Would Become The Red Goddess, or at the time they became
demi-gods/deities (probably after Castle Blue)?
> In short, Yanafal's cult teaches Humakti secrets because those are the
> secrets that Yanafal knew. It would have been surprising if a deified
> Carmanian Humakti nobleman had instead taught people how to make the corn
> grow high, or walk on water, or conduct orchestral manoeuvres in the dark
> (etc...).
True, very true. One wonders about the less-well-known Mothers: perhaps
they're not well known or have "lesser powers" is because they had no
cult affiliation at the time of the ritual? After all, Teelo Norri was
"taken off the streets of ".
> Och, this looks like the right place for a *really nasty* theory that was
> doing the rounds here a year or two ago:
A staunch anti-Lunar might claim that the Mothers recreated the ritual that
Thed, Malia, and Ragnaglar performed: that the Mothers recreated the Devil.
An interesting aside question: how do other cultures explain the Lightbringers
Quest? The version we all know and love is quite obviously Orlanthi. What
do the Yelmites think? This would be important because of the Solar/Lunar
parallel.
> From: JOVANOVIC@CUCCFA.CCC.COLUMBIA.EDU
> Subject: Some responses
>
> Why, if Humakt is more powerful, did the Household of Death suffer such a
> humiliating defeat at the hands of the Lunar army?
Perhaps the Duke was already Illuminated and had gained some Chaos powers?
Which brings up an interesting question: the Red Goddess, on her quest to
become a goddess, comes upon the fragments of Rashoran, killed by the Unholy
Trio, and brings him back to life, thus gaining the secrets of Illumination.
Now, clearly there were still Illuminated mortals alive after Time (Arkat).
Perhaps the reason the creation of the Red Goddess was so successful was
because the Seven Mothers were already Illuminated at the time of their
Quest?
> The Humakti, in turn, might argue that Yanafal Tarnils is but a pale
> reflection of Humakt, and that Yanfal had to turn his back on the powers of
> death before he could return to life.
Not a bad theory.
Jeff
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From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
Subject: No offensive spells
Message-ID:
Date: 20 May 93 09:51:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 829
> From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
> >I've seen StormBull types cast all their battle prep spells, with the exception
> >of fanaticism, and then stand there to pop off a disruption at a broo, just for
> >the power gain roll. The reward is just too great for such trivial behavior.
> >(Like Rob Smith mentioned, good roleplaying would avoid this problem, but we
> > don't need RQ for our games unless it helps the game.)
>
> Indeed, I've done it myself; the rewards are just too great to ignore. It
> also make cults that don't get offensive spells very unattractive: you will
> never go anywhere without power gain.
Me too. However to get around the "this cult's spells suck!"
syndrome I've more or less made disrupt (teeny tiny offensive magic) and
Heal into "common" spirit magic spells. From the stand point of
playability, what good is an RQ character who can't even stop him/her self
from bleeding?
I like the suggestion in the fourth edition, it will require a bit
more book keeping, but I think that it will be worth it.
"Hello, my name is Bill Robertson, and I'm a Power-gain-roll-a-holic. It
all sttarted about 10 yearrs ago when..."
-Bill
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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 May 1993, part 2
Message-ID:
Date: 20 May 93 18:36:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 830
Greg Fried here...
On the POW gain question: In my campaign I have a couple of ways to address
the problem people are refering. One is that I have an extra category of
magic, called 'Disciplines' -- disciplines aren't really magic at all, just
manifestations of a character's devotion th a god. A cultist may acquire
discipline levels in skills appropriate to their god; for every point of
discipline, the player gains +5% IF S/HE STATES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE ROUND
that s/he will use that discipline. IF the character succeeds ONLY because of
the use of the discipline, then a POW gain check is awarded. If the
character FAILS in the action despite the discipline, s/he loses as many
points of temp. POW as put into the discipline that round.
Socondly, at the end of an adventure, I award a POW gain roll to anyone who
acted in keeping with their Runic associations. (Yes, this is a matter of
interpretation, but that's what makes RQ fun! Players are encouraged to come
up with their own convincing interpretations of runic and cultic action!)
I dislike the idea of automatic POW gains: No pain, no gain!
(And the above mentioned POW loss must come from the character's own POW,
not that of allied spirits, crystals, etc.) (Forgive my typos, too!)
--------------
Does anyone know if Greg Stafford has read much Mircea Eliade? It would seem
so. I *highly* recommend his "Patterns of Comparative Religion" (Meridian
Press). Here is a sample of chapter headings: The Sky and Sky Gods; Sun and
Sun-Worship; The Moon and its Mystique (Someone -- in Glasgow? -- was asking
about the Moon...); Sacred Stones; The Waters and Water Symbolism; Morphology
of Myths; Sacred Time (Yes indeed!); The Structure of Symbols; ... and much
Much more! Go to it! This book is a Treasure Trove for cult development!
--------------
Fatigue is such a bore. At the end of a round, I roll a d. On a 1, I
require everyone to make a 'Fatigue Resistence Roll' with various effects.
This saves on bookkeeping and such. If any interest is shown, I'll give more
details. (Oops -- that's d4!)
That's all for now. -- Greg Fried
---------------------
From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Elmal
Message-ID:
Date: 20 May 93 18:55:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 831
Yelmalio and Elmal
One and the Same?
I don't know if I don't think that the retroactive appearance of Elmal
in King of Sartar isn't the most irritating bit of revisionist history
that I've come across, but it certainly made me intellectually
challenged with regard to Glorantha.
KoS says that Elmal was the Sun God of the Orlanthi people. He was a
foe of Orlanth, with whom he fought and after both falling into the
water, became friends. Elmal was a loyal thane (warrior) to Orlanth
and when Orlanth went to Hell on the Lightbringer's Quest, it was
Elmal who guarded the homestead.
Yelmalio, the Sun Domers and Sun County and CoP would say is the son
of Yelm, a noble warrior of Truth and Light who fought against Orlanth
in the Gods Wars and was wounded on the Hill of Gold. At that point he
was ambushed by Zorak Zoran who stole his fire powers. During the
Darkness Yelmalio stayed in the world and provided light to the poor
creatures suffering in the Lesser Darkness. His cult is ritually
antagonistic with Orlanth, but not irreconcilable.
Thus we have two sun gods with similar myths. Elmal fights Orlanth,
Yelmalio fighst Orlanth. Elmal stays to defend the stead, Yelmalio
stays on the surface to provide light and protection. Thus we can see
them as reflections of the same god. KoS goes further and begins to
make God Learner suggestions that Elmal was in some way changed into
Yelmalio by Monrogh, the founder of the Yelmalio cult. The talk is of
corruption by powerful and seductive solar reliogions in Peloria.
I refute such God Learner nonsense. KoS itself makes it clear that
Monrogh experienced a Peculiar Vision, a vison that others before him
had experienced. I would suggest therefore that the Elmali worshipped
an obscured version of Yelmalio, that Orlanthi worship had presented a
version of the Light God that was pro Orlanthi, although not lacking
in the core elements, those of conflict with Orlanth, the role of
vanguard and defender, of light in the dark.
When exposed to solar religion the Elmali began to see the importance
of solar power in the cosmos, and this combined with the strange
visions of their god that they often received, made them quest to
discover the true face of their god. Thus did Monrogh not change the
religion, but reveal it to full light, and allow the Yelmalio to fully
worship and appreciate their god.
I am not overly fond of a relativistic Glorantha, I recognise that
gods reflect their worshippers since the Compromise, but I cling to
the belief that fundamental truths still exist. Thus we need not worry
about the Yelmalio cult "magically appearing" or all the records
having to be magically removed. The Elmali became the Yelmalio, they
already had developed differing architecture and dress, becoming and
ever more distinct part of Orlanthi society. Even now the priests of
Yelmalio will know that they once worshipped Yelmalio through the veil
of Elmal, it is possible that all Yelmalio know this and view any
remaining Elmali as poor souls who just need to "see the light".
I hope this is a clean explanation for what happened with
Elmal/Yelmalio, and that as such it will allow people to be happy with
the new god, without needing to resort to Minarian Memory REMOVALS or
whatever.
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tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk
How Illuminating!
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