(Message rqd:90) Return-Path:Received: from Holland.Sun.COM (sunnl) by homeland.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04653; Fri, 28 May 93 17:16:02 +0200 Received: from glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM by Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1e) id AA16764; Fri, 28 May 93 17:15:49 +0200 Received: by glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17823; Fri, 28 May 93 17:15:15 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 May 93 17:15:15 +0200 Message-Id: <9305281515.AA17823@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 28 May 1993, part 1 Precedence: junk Status: OR The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: paul@phyast.pitt.edu Subject: Re: Sorcery, part 1 Message-ID: <9305271523.AA05360@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 27 May 93 15:23:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 887 RQ Sorcery - Paul Reilly I think most of us agree that there are severe problems with the RQ III Sorcery system. I would like people's opinions on what a new Sorcery System for RQ IV should be like. Of course, if you like the system as it stands you should also speak up in its defense. In my opinion, a major rewrite would be desirable. However, I don't know whether any really major changes can be promulgated at this point. (Due to requiring compatibility with already published material, etc.) then we should look at incremental fixes. More on some possible such fixes in another article. What do we want from a Sorcery System? For Glorantha, we want sorcery to reflect Western culture and religion in much the same way that cults and shamanism reflect polytheistic and primitive cultures respectively. I feel that the existing systems for those cultures do a fairly good job and with the changes suggested in the RQ IV draft and a little embellishing by the GM and players one can impart a magical feel to the game. For non-Gloranthan games we want the magic system to resonate with our stories and legends, thus imparting the right "feel" to magic, and to fit logically in the world-system of the game Luckily this is not incompatible with Gloranthan requirements above because of the strong similarities between Gloranthan and Earth myths and legends. For story purposes, magic should enhance the story without overwhelmingly dominating everything. When magic is totally dominant, the story gets so far away from the real world that we lose the ability to identify well with the characters. Game balance is also important, to make sure that the game will be fun, and also to present a self consistent universe. People living in a world will exploit the rules they live under as soon as they can. Thus in our world we shifted from tension powered weapons to gun because the cost benefit ratio was favorable. Similarly Gloranthan sorcerors will act in accord with their own self interest. To produce the kind of society we want, people exploiting the rules should do the kinds of things Gloranthans do. Thus people join cults out of religious feeling and to get benefits. PENDRAGON does an excellent job of this, where rules-driven behavior and genre behavior are virtually identical due to clever rules design. RQ II did a good job with Cults of Prax, etc. My proposal is that we should treat Glorantha as a "real world" and then try to model the magic of that world with our game systems. This involves the difficult tasks of reverse engineering and reasoning backwards, from effect to cause. Problems with RQ III Sorcery How do Gloranthan sorcerors act? In the supplements we see an order of Wizards who serve religious roles, who study Lores, and who maintain intricate spells carefully crafted by them. And their are a few extremely powerful sorcerors. There seems to be a limited amount of magic that can be done in one area - in the cult system this is modelled by temples. Sorcerors love Runes, according to some of the published material. We are told of Death Rune magic, Fire magi, etc. But there is no real system to encourage people to act in accordance with these Runes. A sorceror with Treat Wounds is just as likely to have Animate Fire as he is to have Regenerate. In many stories as well as in Glorantha, Wizards seem to be innately conservative people who don't necessarily throw around lots of magic. Let's reason forward from the RQ III Sorcery rules. Assuming these represent the laws of nature for magic, how will people behave? First, let's assume that there are several to many competing kingdoms, etc. Thus, regardless of cultural pressures within the society, those societies that make the best use of the Sorcery rules will tend to outcompete the others, all other factors being equal. On an individual basis sorcerors who make the most effective use of their magic will be the most successful and be able to train more apprentices, thus their practices will spread. The most impact will be made by long-duration spells. Here we get to a critical variable: the number and Intensity of spells that a sorceror can have running at once. With even a low Duration skill, a sorceror with plenty of time can afford a few misses in order to get long duration spells running. These spells can be maintained for long periods. Effectively, they are a way of storing magic which is better than any other available to the sorceror. Even an Apprentice can have hundreds of spells running at once. The number of spells running at once depends on the effective Free INT of the sorceror and on the amount of Power available to him, ie. magic points per day. Let's compare a Priest with an Apprentice Sorceror. The Apprentice will have trained his Enchant to 50% and have Ceremony of 17%. He will have 10 points of Enchantment and the Priest 15 points of Rune Magic. The Apprentice paid his master to Summon some spirits with his savings. Apprentice, INT 16, Pow 12: 1 Int 4 Int Spirit (2 points) 1 Damage Boost + Duration 4 matrix (5 points) 3 Power spirits, total power 33. (3 points) Knows Binding Enchantment, Matrix Enchantment, Regenerate, Mystic Vision (Used to know Damage Boosting but forgot it when he made the matrix) When not using his other spells he can cast Damage Boost with Intensity + Duration = 21 twice a day. Asuming average rolls on his spells he will usually have a couple of MP's left. Let's say he sells or gives his friends mostly Damage Boost 6. He can constantly maintain 448 Damage Boost 6's. He can reserve one DB 11 for himself and still maintain 416 DB 6's. If he was working for an army he could maintain 1792 DB 4's. And this guy is just a minor sorceror, equivalent in investment of Power and Training to a village Acolyte of Ernalda. He has no skills over 50%. With every additional two points of Power invested in Power spirits he can double this output. Each point in bigger matrices would double the number of spells he could maintain at the same intensity. It is this doubling that causes the runaway effect. So if we use these rules _all_ western armies should be made up of people with enhanced stats and damage boost on all their weapons. You might say that these people don't have the social organization to pull this off. Well, if even one of the city-states of Ralios adopts this appproach then the others had better copy it or be conquered. Otherwise we get back the Dark Empire. If there is anything like 1% Adept Sorcerors then even peasants will have enhanced Strength and Constitution and armies will be truly superhuman. This picture does not seem to coincide with the picture in the Genertela Box or any other supplement, except perhaps for the Brithini. Even these people seem to not practice this level of sorcery; we are told that each Horali has several sorcerors enhancing him, implying that there is a limited number of spells that each Zzaburi can maintain. If you have GM'd or played extensively with sorcerors in your campaign, you know that once they get their INT freed and a power spirit or two, you will get an explosion of enhanced stats, Damage Resistance, Spell Resistance, etc. And all sorcery using cultures should have the same. I think that consistency is good, and that we should keep the Gloranthan culture as described and chuck the Duration skill as we know it. I think that this should be replaced with a statistic that tells us the total number of magic points that the sorceror can have out in spells, or some similar mechanic. Further, I think that the use of Runes should be explicitly present in our model of Gloranthan sorcery since they are supposed to be fundamental to the world. I think that the Laws of Magic (Similarity, Contagion, etc. can be included implicitly as part of the spell design but should be mentioned as something for GMs to consider when describing magical ceremonies, etc. If we decide to keep the existing system as is then there are several patches on particularly broken Sorcery spells. Through playtest we have discovered that casting spells through Sense Projections while reckoning range from the Projection point is a Bad Idea. We should allow these spells to be used for targetting but Range should still be reckoned from the sorceror, otherwise these spells can be used for intercontinent assasinations. If we redesign the system we should look at Range as well. This works ok but would it be better to have interposing features such as oceans, mountains, running water, or the Dead Place count against it? --------------------- From: hebert@uclink.berkeley.edu (Brian Hebert) Subject: Idle Curiosity Message-ID: <32619.hebert@uclink.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 27 May 93 16:03:38 GMT X-RQ-ID: 888 How many subscribers are there to this digest? Could that figure be added to the automatic header? =-=-=-= Has anyone heard of the Henkl cult (a minor hero of Lhankor Mhy)? He offers the following special rune spell to his followers: Digest Temporal, Non-stackable, Reusable 1 POW A specialized form of mindspeech, it allows the user, without regard to distance, to leave mental messages in a specific portion of the spirit plane associated with the shrine of Henkl where the spell was acquired. Anyone casting this spell can also "receive" all of the messages which have been left there since their last contact. This is one of the most efficient forms of long distance communication on Glorantha. The fact that it is available only to Henkl devotees (who are reknowned for the arcane impracticality of their interests) has limited its social and historical impact (but the cultists love it!). ;') I could go on about the sectarian divisions amongst the Henkli (physicists vs. anthropologists, Nostalgics vs. Utilitarians, etc.) but do I need to? =-=-=-= Seriously though, as a relatively new subscriber, I want to thank everyone for the effort which is put into this Digest. It really shows and is much appreciated. (It also reinforces my vain prejudices about the nature and quality of RQ players as a subset of FRP gamers in general.) Three Cheers! -- Brian --------------------- From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder) Subject: Play Kites Brithini POW gain Melisande Message-ID: Date: 27 May 93 20:18:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 889 I have played in Prax, Holy Country and am going to Sartar, dull eh? I have also run Dagori Inkarth and the Shadow Plateau and the Blue Moon, not so dull eh? POW gain. You may think this dull but i think that the current criteria for POW gain should stay plus the idea that criticalling any kind of magic roll will allow for a POW gain and that performing cosmically important acts will allow POW gain. I would have said that priests should get automatic POW gain at the High Holy Day and initiates get a POW gain roll, but that for Life aspected cults attending to a birth might allow a POW gain roll, for a Death cultist some form of slaughter (dependent on the god) might yield one. In other words, magical activity and/or acts which significantly support one's Rune or the Compromise. POW gain should be either 1d3 or 1d6, 1-3 =1, 4-5 =2, 6 =3. It's never come to my attention but I presume the Orlanthi fly kites a lot? Simlarly, having been reading the Titus/Gormenghast books, I feel that the Brithini are likely to be addicted/tied to endless meaningless rituals, to following books of "Laws" on a mindless and decaying cycle of nothingness. The Gormenghast chant of "No Change" should be a Brithini one, into battle. Garhound. Darth Jophayn, a PC Yelmalio, near Light Son status one, with Jarst Daro second. One of my PCs had the celibacy geas, oops, and the other cheated so abysmally he almost got disqualified. Darth, an honourable guy, settled with Melisande, altho he got roped into the events on the Cradle a season later. Having remained incognito, he returned to her rather than go to sea, only for her to be kidnapped by Blue Moon trolls and taken there thru a wormhole. Having rescued her and explored a strange Blue Moon temple on the very strange Blue Moon (did you know that evrything there is Blue?) he returned thru the workhole to Garhound. Peace followed until exactly one year later, Godday, Earth Week, Earth season, when his twin girls were born to a very proud wife. He is now unsure as to whether they'll settle in Garhound with the in-laws or take Solanthos Ironpike's offer of a posting in Pavis. He needs to talk to Melisande when she's feeling a bit better. Oh yes, I'll fake this years contest.. -------------------------------------------------------------------- tzunder@cix.compulink.com.uk How Illuminating! -------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall) Subject: Queen Deezola Message-ID: <930527201239_100116.2616_BHB49-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 27 May 93 20:12:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 890 Favourite of nobles and poets. The spells she knows are Regrow Limb, Resurrect, Sustain Life (a sort of stasis that allows wounded or sick individuals from bleeding to death or dying of infection), Prevent Decay (prevents dead flesh from rotting) and Protect Location (one at random depending on the moon phase). She also knows earth magic. I'm not sure if this includes Heal Body and Restore Strength - it would make some sense that she only knows the latter. Her spells give quite a few pointers to the methods and ritual that the Seven Mothers used to liberate the Red Goddess... Still no news on the hard disc. --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: curiosity Message-ID: <9305272303.AA07300@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 28 May 93 03:03:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 891 > Subject: curiosity > Date: Thu, 27 May 93 17:07:34 CDT > > How many people subscribe to the RQ Digest (approximately)? > About 300... -- Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun. oK[] | RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM --------------------- From: mdebar@info.fundp.ac.be Subject: help Message-ID: <9305281255.AA05810@druuna.cc.fundp.ac.be> Date: 28 May 93 16:55:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 892 help