Bell Digest v930612p1

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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 93 17:15:12 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Jun 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: OR

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

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From: T.S.Baguley@open.ac.uk (Thom Baguley)
Subject: Trademarks ...
Message-ID: <9306111741.AA19206@Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Jun 93 17:16:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1038

>From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
>Subject: Stuff
>Message-ID: <199306101719.AA29664@sun.Panix.Com>
>Date: 10 Jun 93 09:19:23 GMT
>X-RQ-ID: 1029

>  "Theomancy" is Latin for "predicting the future with the help of the
>gods."  I'm no lawyer, but I'd imagine it would be hard to copyright.

Hate to be a wet blanket, but Marvel is a real word too, but don't try and
publish any game/comic etc. with it in the title. If someone is using Theomancy
for a product in this line of business (games/publishing etc.) then I wouldn't
reccommend using it.

Thom

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From: tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tom Zunder)
Subject: Party make Up
Message-ID: 
Date: 11 Jun 93 20:52:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1039


Mine were;

A Balazaaring Yelmalio posted to Prax
An ex Sartar Lhankor Mhy who was brought up in Pavis
An ex Sartar yelmalio convert who drifted to Pavis long ago in RQ2 days
A Pol Joni Storm Kahn who'd fought in Heortland
A Basmoli fresh from the Wastes
A Third Eye Blue from Pavis whose wife had been possessed by a demon
A Carmanian Yanafal Tarnils knight with a bit of a reputation for love
affairs to play down in the Doblian sultanate


Lingua Franca? "Speklo Tradotalko?" and "Habla Pelorio linguisi?"

Plus quite a bit of "Dus thou speak Pavic/Sartar, lad?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Orlanth Rex!                            tzunder@cix.compulink.co.uk 
--------------------------------------------------------------------



---------------------

From: prharmaty@aol.com
Subject: Re: Where in the World
Message-ID: <9306120019.tn06623@aol.com>
Date: 12 Jun 93 04:19:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1040

Paul Harmaty Here...
- My RQ group plays in Sartar. They are all Sartarites with the single
exception of one character who is half Tarshite.
- They a centered in the Jarolar's Keep area. The nearness of Telmori and
trolls has provided some interesting encounters and creates a great setting.
- All characters are cousins and members of the same clan (though as years
pass some have married into other clans).
- The current year for the campaign is 1582 and the Battle of Grizzley Peak
has just happened 'off stage'.
- The whole campaign has been organized like a Pendragon campaign. The
characters began play in the year 1572 and time passes between adventure
sessions. Important events are taking place that will effect the character's
lives. The characters are not impotent, they do win small victories, but
there is a sense forboding about the future.  
- I chose the historical setting because I felt it freed me from 
the worry of being contradicted by any new RQ release. Armed with the 'King
of Sartar' book, I've found no difficulty in creating a lively playing
environment.
- I know this sort of thing has been done before. Anyone playing in
historical Glorantha at this time? Would a campaign pack set in the era of
the Lunar invasion be appealing to anyone? Comments??

---------------------

From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: Malkioni stuff
Message-ID: <930612130809_100116.2616_BHJ20-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 93 13:08:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1041

Whoa Guys! 

Carl Fink:
>Um, could we tone down the personal stuff?

I certainly didn't take Carl's comments personally, and I think that Nick 
has over-reacted a bit. However, I am the editor of an RQ fanzine and so I 
do exist to be shot at and put in my place if I deserve it! 

Concerning ye olde debate on the Malkioni and sorcery:

Dwarves. All I'm saying is that there are only some 770,000 dwarves in 
Genertela which hardly makes them a majority. On the Elder Secret map there 
are only three other dwarf symbols, at Jrustela, Slon and the Mari 
Mountains of Pamaltela, but seven symbols in Genertela. 
Who wants to play a dwarf and have to eat Alpha Red anyway? The majority of 
players? Are they really a good reason not to incorporate the Malkioni 
social structure into sorcery?

Kralori. OK, so there are a lot of them and they seem to use sorcery! I was 
wrong. The sorcery is poorly defined, and probably only related to Godunya 
as the other gods of the pantheon usually use divine magic - Godunya 
becomes an Invisible God surrogate? 
In all there are only about 9 million worshippers once you take out the 
Hsunchen and Kingdom of Ignorance (who are mostly secret Black Sun 
worshippers!). 

Eastern Isles. Here Carl and me are reading from different sources. My 
understanding is that each island has a local religion based around a 
unique god (see GoG, p34). Indeed the sub-title is "A Thousand Gods". The 
spell examples also look suspiciously divine and spiritual. Of course 
various types of sorcery no doubt exist on various islands for "every 
island has its peculiarity, and though always different from others, is a 
paradise to its inhabitants." But on the other hand there will also be a 
variety of divine and shamanistic religions. The East Isles are designed to 
have infinite variation, and not be exclusively one thing or the other - 
including magic systems. 

Note: Valkaro "converted the inhabitants of four of the Eastern Isles". 
Maybe they were the biggest ones? Maybe not!

Pamaltela. In Umathela the peoples of the coast follow the Rokari sect as 
well as other heresies. In Fonrit the people of Ebbeshal worship a unique 
and weird sect of Malkion that claims "trancendental secrets which teach 
that mundane life is worthless, hence any action is excusable". The 
Sedalpists are in Enkloso and Vralos "where they are fairly important". The 
other regions of Pamaltela (that information exists for, i.e. excluding 
Laskal and Slon) are almost exclusively of the Pamaltelan pantheon. 
Certainly no other types of sorcery are mentioned beyond the dwarves of the 
Mari Mountains.

So, I still reckon that the Malkioni make up *the most* sorcery users, in 
all probability! I can't prove it, but then neither can anyone else 
disprove it!

Oliver Jovanovic: my definition of Malkioni is the same as in the cult of 
the Invisible God write-up, i.e. worshippers of the Invisible God. So I 
include the Vadeli and the Stygians, but exclude the Carmanians.

Carl Fink:
>No one suggests ignoring Malkioni, just that you can't incorporate
>their social structures into the rules.

To my mind that is as good as ignoring them! 

Carl Fink:
>Oh, let me be clear - the example sorcerors and example sorcery
>school in the rulebook will be Malkioni (Carmanian).  I just don't
>think the rules should be designed to fit only Malkioni.

Nor do I think the rules should only fit the Malkioni. However, without any 
commitment to explaining the religious and cultural basis for sorcery, in 
all of its guises, the rules won't fit anyone or anything. 

What is required is the same approach as with Shamanistic spirit cults and 
Pantheonistic religions/cults. Basic generic sorcery rules should exist, 
but they cannot just be presented standalone as they were in RQ3. Each 
sorcery sect or group will use those rules in a different way: by having a 
different spell list, different attitudes to who can use sorcery (or who 
goes to heaven, or attitudes to women, or worship of icons, etc.), or even 
a weird and unique type of magic. Ideally, I'm looking for a Cults of Prax 
of sorcery, but with all the other innovations that were in Gods of 
Glorantha. And in long-form.

Carmanians. Unfortunately the rough draft of this I've seen for RQ4 doesn't 
meet my requirements for a sect description. It's currently just additional 
rules information with a bit of history tacked onto the front. It lacks 
depth, its muddled, and the culture depicted is inadequate. 

In a 1991 copy of Stafford and Petersens's Cult of the Invisible God (which 
I hope to publish next year if it ain't in RQ4) the Carmanian school is 
extinct. "Most Malkioni theologians believe that the Lunar Empire has 
inherited the Carmanian heresy, and that the Lunars have simply replaced 
the Invisible God with the Red Goddess." ( I love this concept!) In effect 
it is no longer a Malkioni sect, it is now a Lunar sect.

As a result the religious and cultural link with the Red Goddess deserves a 
lot of thought. Unfortunately the RQ4 version doesn't have or explore this 
link, and the Invisible God is rather surprisingly still worshipped.

The history is also inaccurate in places, but the best person to talk to 
about this is Nick Brooke. 

Other stuff:

Oliver Jovanovic:
>3) Unaligned sorcerers (occupying forces, Lunar Empire, Carmania)

I have serious problems with unaligned sorcerers! Mostly I want to burn 
them, and I think I'm not alone in Glorantha. Because of the RQ3 Sorcery 
rules and their lack of a cultural link there seems to have built up a 
belief that there are loads of unaligned sorcerers around. Far from it, 
they are extremely rare. Most are just apostates from existing sects, 
probably cursed, and with short lives unless they are pretty powerful 
and/or lucky. 

The definition of an unaligned sorcerer is that he (or she) has no morals  
- for he doesn't follow the Law of Malkion (or the Edict of Godunya, or the 
Mechanical Principles of Mostal). Would you trust a guy who doesn't follow 
any recognised morals? Are you sure he isn't going to Tap you when your 
back is turned? Hey, he might be a Vadeli! Lock up your children, we all 
know what the Vadeli do to them! 
I suspect an unaligned sorcerer's time in Malkioni, or Kralori, or Dwarven, 
or Lunar lands is finite.

Divad Llah:
*Hey, but if he's really powerful he can build a tower or something, he 
doesn't have to *get on with the locals? Assuming he doesn't want to eat, 
of course. 

Err, no. In most lands there is a social hierachy, with a boss at the top. 
If you are a Malkioni feudal overlord (or an Exarch from Kralorela) would 
you trust that really powerful guy in the tower over there? Wouldn't you be 
a tad worried that this heretic might subvert your people, might even usurp 
you, or worse, threaten your faith and your soul?

There's also no haven in non-Malkioni lands ( or 
non-Kraloreli/Mostali/Black Arkati lands), 'cos anywhere else you're a real 
foreignor with no legal rights at all, and disgusting table manners. What's 
more if you start doing weird magic the locals tend to tar and feather or 
lobotomise you, and worse. 

The only place I reckon you'll find unaligned sorcerers is in out of the 
way places, the sort of places that Broos are found in - and such places 
are dangerous enough! No wonder most Orlanthi reckon sorcerers are Chaotic 
really...

Being an unaligned sorcerer is a real bitch!

---------------------

From: wroberts@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William C Robertson)
Subject: Goodbye all!
Message-ID: 
Date: 12 Jun 93 06:14:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1042

Thanks everyone, you're great.  I've graduated, and I'm going to be cut
off from internet soon.  So, once again, thanks!

-Bill


"I am not an animal!  I am a vegetable!"  - The elephant elf.