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Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 17:15:17 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 14 Jun 1993, part 1
Precedence: junk
Status: O
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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---------------------
From: curtiss@netcom.com (Curtis Shenton)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Jun 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9306121531.AA08833@netcom2.netcom.com>
Date: 12 Jun 93 15:31:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1043
>
> From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
> Subject: Malkioni stuff
>
> Concerning ye olde debate on the Malkioni and sorcery:
>
> Dwarves. All I'm saying is that there are only some 770,000 dwarves in
> Genertela which hardly makes them a majority. On the Elder Secret map there
> are only three other dwarf symbols, at Jrustela, Slon and the Mari
> Mountains of Pamaltela, but seven symbols in Genertela.
> Who wants to play a dwarf and have to eat Alpha Red anyway? The majority of
> players? Are they really a good reason not to incorporate the Malkioni
> social structure into sorcery?
Forget about PCs and think about actually using them in a campaign as
NPCs. It's possible. :) And I for one would like to not have to fudge
and tweak my own rules do unMalkionify the rules to use them for
Mostali.
>
> So, I still reckon that the Malkioni make up *the most* sorcery users, in
> all probability! I can't prove it, but then neither can anyone else
> disprove it!
That's not all that helpfull Dave. SO basically we don't know how large
a majority of sorceror users the Malkioni are.
> Nor do I think the rules should only fit the Malkioni. However, without any
> commitment to explaining the religious and cultural basis for sorcery, in
> all of its guises, the rules won't fit anyone or anything.
>
> What is required is the same approach as with Shamanistic spirit cults and
> Pantheonistic religions/cults. Basic generic sorcery rules should exist,
> but they cannot just be presented standalone as they were in RQ3. Each
> sorcery sect or group will use those rules in a different way: by having a
> different spell list, different attitudes to who can use sorcery (or who
> goes to heaven, or attitudes to women, or worship of icons, etc.), or even
> a weird and unique type of magic. Ideally, I'm looking for a Cults of Prax
> of sorcery, but with all the other innovations that were in Gods of
> Glorantha. And in long-form.
A book on Sorcery would be very nice. But I'm not sure how much can be
done in the basic RQIV rules. All I know is that I don't want to see it
biased towards anyone sorcery culture. I know many cultures will require
some modifications to the rules to make them work right. BUt you
shouldn't ahve to first remove the Malkioni rules and then add the
Eastern sorcery rules, you should just be able to add the eastern part
directly if you see what I mean.
>
--
Curtis Shenton curtiss@netcom.com internet & 4@3091 WWIVnet
"At the GM's option, strategic nuclear weapons may be considered
'magical'"-From the CyberCthulhu rules in Interface
---------------------
From: carlf@Panix.Com (Carl Fink)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12
Message-ID: <199306121858.AA02332@sun.Panix.Com>
Date: 12 Jun 93 10:58:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1044
To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com
Subject: sorcery ad nauseam
100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall) writes:
R>Eastern Isles. Here Carl and me are reading from different sources. My
>understanding is that each island has a local religion based around a
>unique god (see GoG, p34). Indeed the sub-title is "A Thousand Gods". The
>spell examples also look suspiciously divine and spiritual. Of course
>various types of sorcery no doubt exist on various islands for "every
>island has its peculiarity, and though always different from others, is a
>paradise to its inhabitants." But on the other hand there will also be a
>variety of divine and shamanistic religions. The East Isles are designed to
>have infinite variation, and not be exclusively one thing or the other -
>including magic systems.
R>Note: Valkaro "converted the inhabitants of four of the Eastern Isles".
>Maybe they were the biggest ones? Maybe not!
Yes, but only one of those islands is now Malkioni. And all those
divine cults DON'T TEACH SPIRIT MAGIC. The non-Divine portion of their
magic is (generally) sorcery.
---------------------
From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Sorcery info
Message-ID: <9306122008.aa19047@post.demon.co.uk>
Date: 12 Jun 93 19:09:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1045
Wow, this is more like it - an expanding sorcery debate, the big guns are
firing, the smokes getting thicker and no rules (as of yet), Keep it up!
Joerg mentioned
>> the Sedalpist
>> heresy of Enkloso and Vralos (Malkionism in Pamaltela)? The other human
>I didn't remeber this in Wednesday's article. Where is this detailed?But
agreed, they are yet
>another sect of Malkionists and need a slightly different touch to their
sorcery rules.
Of course youve never heard of this, I think few people have. Here are the 3
rumoured sources; 1) The unpublished long RQ3 Chaosium write up of the cult of
the Invisible God circa 1986, 2) An article in an Austrailian (??) Mag called
Breakout 34 called Umathela (Full refs on this in the New Stafford compendium -
Ive misplaced mine) - If I recall correctly they are mainly Rokari, 3) In the
unpublished pamaltela book that was mentioned a few days ago (If its not in
there then who knows), Sandy Petersen spoke at length about it at Convulsion.
Perhaps the Pamaltela stuff may appear in Tales 11, The Pamaltelan issue, fill
us in MOB/DH.
>> Knights of Pithdaros.
>Who are they? And I think Argrath and Harrek are going to bring quite a lot of
Pamaltelans "home".
I assume they are from Pithandros mentioned on p83 of Glorantha book2
(Seshnela), the knights bit might be a Nick Brooke legend. What about it Nick?
What Sorcery in there in Dragon Pass;
Well, theres the Lunars (Red Goddess weird stuff), The dwarf in Dwarf run
(underground weird stuff), and Sir Ethilrist is a stygian heretic at muse roost
(dark weird stuff). There arent any (known) Arkati amongst the Trolls in
Dagori Inkarth, only in Guhan (seat of the old Dark empire).To be a troll is
Kyger Litor, to be a sorcerer is not Kyger Litor. Arkat is respected there and
probably gives a spirit magic or a divine magic, as a hero cult. Remember there
are many facets of Arkat.
Sandwiches on the edge of time
DScott@Snail.demon.co.uk 158.152.16.30
---------------------
From: okamoto@hpcc90.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Jun 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <9306122105.AA00318@hpcc90.corp.hp.com>
Date: 12 Jun 93 21:05:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1046
> From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
> Subject: Malkioni stuff
>
> "Most Malkioni theologians believe that the Lunar Empire has
> inherited the Carmanian heresy, and that the Lunars have simply replaced
> the Invisible God with the Red Goddess." ( I love this concept!) In effect
> it is no longer a Malkioni sect, it is now a Lunar sect.
I would venture to say that the Lunar cult merged together the concepts of
sorcery with Sun worship. Of course they changed the Sun to the Moon, and
as I have said before, also asserted the principle that *anyone* may become
a deity. I would suspect that they pushed the Invisible God even further
into the background because of the obvious, immanent Red Goddess.
Jeff
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Various random comments
Message-ID: <9306101201.AA09985@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Jun 93 12:02:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1047
Nick, surely you know that Issaries is just a God-Learner construct (I wonder
who originally accompanied Orlanth on the Lightbringers Quest). So is it surprising that their higher ranks tend to gravitate towards God-Learner ways. All
the high level Issaries types I have seen have done so, even my own.
So Thurla is just a more successful example of the typical, untrustworthy,
God-Learner, bastard who pretends to worship Issaries in order to cover their
foul, necromatic, blood sucking, twisted evil ways. Not that I have a very
strong opinion on the matter.
On another subject. The use of POW spirits to create permenent magical
artifacts while feasible is a subject no right thinking Gloranthan would
even consider. I quote the ruins of the Clanking City as an object lesson
against raping the world's resources in order to produce a few cheap mass
produced magic items. If anyone starts doing that again I'll be one of the
horde of "ignorant peasants" who descends on them and crudely chops them into
little tiny pieces using no more than a trusty bronze sword with a heft dose
of ploughsharp.
I do hope that the above letter winds people up. Personally I quite like
the idea of being a God-Learner but I am frightened that if I ever understood
all their secrets then Glorantha would lose its magic for me.
Lewis Jardine
---------------------
From: 100116.2233@CompuServe.COM (Malcolm Smith)
Subject: Cancelation
Message-ID: <930612215541_100116.2233_BHJ5-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 12 Jun 93 21:55:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1048
Henk -
Please can you cancel my subscription to the RuneQuest DAILY
------
Thanks,
Malc
---------------------
From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: It's Mr. Agreeable!
Message-ID: <930613015215_100270.337_BHB30-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 93 01:52:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1049
__________
Carl Fink:
> Um, could we tone down the personal stuff?
Um, yes. Sorry: you triggered my Orlanthi "loyalty to chosen leaders"
reflex after my social graces had been atrophied by a week of taxation
studies. I overreacted to a perceived slight to a friend. Please forgive
my occasionally crude and obnoxious ways.
====
Nick
====
(I still want Malkioni!)
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: Player Characters
Message-ID: <930613095906_100116.2616_BHJ27-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Jun 93 09:59:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1050
In my campaign the PC's are all Sartarites from the Greydog clan of the
Lismelder tribe. There is one Indrodari, three Orlanthi and a wannabe
Lhankor Mhy. We once had a Heortlander (a worshipper of Saint Orlanth of
the Aeolian Church) in the group, but he died - his manners were atrocious.
We also lost one PC to Yanafal Tarnils and so we don't talk about her any
more.
They've met one sorcerer, but before he could speak to them the Humakti
(Steve Thomas) chopped his head off. It was a gut reaction I'm told. So
whether he was Malkioni or not never came up. He was "probably" a Malkioni!
Like Paul Harmaty we play against the historical backdrop described in
Dragons Past and King of Sartar, but always from a clan base. Most of the
PC's are married with kids and pride themselves on the quality of their
cows, sheep and crops!