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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Jul 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
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The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)


From: (Simon Basham)
Subject: Too many players
Date: 14 Jul 93 08:44:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1275

I know that from most peoples perspectives trying to find players is a
problem. Well I have the opposite problem. My RQIV group currently has 11
players and 15 characters and at least another three players who want to
join. I can't cope, scenarios aren't tough enough. I really want about 4-5
players but I don't want to discourage people from playing RQ by killing
loads of PC's off. I've tried to get someone else to run a RQ game in
another region but all people want to do is play.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated, I party have just wiped out 15 Tusk
riders and are heading to Pavis. I don't think I can cope with running a
game this big in somewhere like the Rubble.

PS  I loved the mini story by Loren Miller, a real slice of life. If I ever
get time from book keeping my game to write up some of my ideas properly
I'll fill the digest for a couple of weeks.

Till then think on this one:

"Maybe Gimpy's serve Walktapus stew, that's why the pot's never empty?"

"Alive and CIXing"                


Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Jul 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Jul 93 17:53:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1276

   Paul R. here.  Just a couple of quick things today.

   Reply to David Cheng:
>   Summary: The Open Seas spell has nothing to do with 
>'sorcery,' except that it is learned like any other skill (like

  I tend to disagree.  The curse of Zzabur closed the seas, using sorcery
(so  the Open Seas spell must have _something_ to do with sorcery)
which exploits the natural laws of Glorantha in an orderly pattern.  Finding
a procedure which fools the curse could easily be sorcery (drawing on the
same store of knowledge which was used to design the curse.)  Perhaps
the spell 'tricks' the curse into categorizing the ship as a 'natural'
object and thus avoids triggering it?

  Reply to Graeme Lindsell:

  Nice work on Kralorelan Ancestor worship.  This of course brings in another
Chinese parallel.  More on Gloranthan parallels another time...  Do we need
'most' adult Kralorelan citizens to be acolytes or just (for example) the
matriarchs of families?

  Nice story, Loren.

  To Joerg and Rob:

  There are at least two models which might apply in Glorantha:
1.  Deities gain their power from worship and sacrifice, plus a relatively
small amount of native power and any stolen power.  It is possible to
'steal' another deity's worship (e.g., Sheng Seleris and the Red Emperor.)
  This model might be used by the Malkioni in explaining the pagan gods.

2.  The greater deities have truly tremendous power, independent of worship,
but are bound by the Compromise into using that power in set ways, except
where free-willed mortals summon the deity's power into the world through
sacrifice, or when directly confronting Chaos.

  Thus (for example), EVERY act of sex, every conception of new life, etc.
is performed through the power of Uleria.  Each such act is magical in
itself but people are so used to it that they have become jaded.  Similarly,
each wind is caused by an air god, Flamal causes all plants to grow, etc.,
but because they are bound to set patterns of exerting these powers we
grow used to the miracles around us and call them 'mundane'.  The gods
may not interfere directly in mortal affairs but instead use proxies like
Rune Priests, who exchange some of their own power to allow a bit of
their god's power into the world.

  This is, I think, a common model among the more sophisticated (barbarian
and civilized) theistic cultures.  The gods are elevated to the status of
the prime movers of  the world.

  Evidence for this view:  The primal gods (Arachne Solara, Uleria, Trickster,
maybe Earth Witch, Hykim & Mykih, Horned Man, a few other examples) seem 
not to need the usual cult structure to support the powers of their proxies.

>look at the different versions of gods scattered
>around Generatela

  In model (2) this is explained by saying that gods have many aspects and 
are bound by the compromise to not interfere in the Inner World unless invited
by mortals, so the aspect known locally to the mortals colors how the
god acts in that region.


  More later,


From: (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Down
Date: 13 Jul 93 21:31:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1277

Greg Fried here.

My mailbox for email was down for several days.  I apologize to those of you
who tried to get through to me, since your mail was certainly returned to you.
 My mailbox is now functioning.


Subject: Re: Open Seas and Kings
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Jul 93 19:49:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1278

Firstly, in case anybody remembers my first set of ramblings, I apologise for 
filling up vital space, but I have decided to send in a few comments more 
comments, so here goes nothing.

Re: Open Seas.
	I think that when GoG says it is sorcery, it's because it is! That is 
why the Malkioni are allowed to use it. The RQ rulebooks and the Malkioni "What
The Priest Says" are both very clear on the nature of sorcery: it is the direct
manipulation of nature by the individual. OK, to be fair, it is probably just
one "direct" (scientific?) way, but that's all it is, a "natural" nagic. Indeed,
every thing written about how sorcery works portrays it as just a skill, 
precisely as David Cheng says. OK, again I am making generalisations, because
the post-Hrestol Malkioni, or at least the Rokari, view sorcery spells as 
prayers, but we've been down this path before....
	If Steve Gilham (X-RQ-ID: 1271) is right, then there won't be much 
sailing done in Glorantha if the magic changes again with RQ4.
	In any case, didn't Nochet once have a Bishop, so Dormal may well have
been a Malkioni. If not, why did the Westerners accept him quite so readily?
Indeed, why did Dormal sail West and not in some other direction.

Re: Kingship
	This has been a very interesting discussion on an anthropogically major
subject! All I wish to say on this is that I think that it is the position of
head of state that is important. For many cultures inheritance is important,
but it is having, for example, a head to wear the crown of kingship that really
matters and not so much whose head it is. In this I bow both to history, think
of the English kings: Saxon, Norman, then more finely, Angevin, Plantagenet, 
Tudor, etc. or, better still, how Pepin the Short, while Mayor of Paris, deposed
the Merovingian's, establishing the line that would be known as the 
Carolingians. I also bow to the greatest of all the GodLearners, the late Joseph
Campbell-see "The Hero With A Thousand Faces", p.72, for a note on how it is
the position and not the individual filling it that counts.
	For a Gloranthan example I, of course, turn westwards to Loskalm. The
concept of King here could not be further from the dynastic model, and yet of 
the king(Genertela, Bk. 2, p11) 
	"He is also the court of last resort, the poorest man's champion,
	and the sacrificial hero, ready to die in the ultimate rite of his
This, from Malkioni! This is the stuff of kings. See the film "Excalibur".

Does any of this make sense?

P.S. I guess that Richard the Lion Heart + Jerusalem (The Holy City)
Richard the Tiger-Hearted + Malkonwal (the Malkioni holy city).


From: (boris)
Subject: RuneDeck
Message-ID: <>
Date: 13 Jul 93 15:24:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1279

Boris here.
Greg Fried wrote in  X-RQ-ID: 1257-1259

>OK, now some problems.  This deck is going to have a LOT of cards. Five suits
>of ten cards each, plus 5 * 5 face cards, plus the major arcana -- that's 75+
>cards.  And if there's a Lunar deck, that's six suits *10, plus 6 * 6 face
>cards, plus the majors -- over 100!   But perhaps the response to this
>problem is, so what? 

  97 cards if we have as many majors as the RW deck.  If the Glorantha
  majors are based on the the Form and Condition runes, then it would be
  fewer.  Still more than a RW tarot deck, but not tremendously more (85+
  vs. 78).

  BTW, I like your idea of associating the number cards with the Power runes.
  (As well as adding two weeks to each season.  I forget who suggested this
  on the daily a week or so ago, but my group has adopted it to make things
  easier [and also so I wouldn't have to decide whether human aging and
  gestation went faster than in RW]).  We could keep the same sequence as the
  calendar, though having the Harmony rune be the Three card is tempting ;-)

  Regardless of how we order them, many (if not most) of the number cards
  will also have divine correspondences.  This being the case, perhaps
  we should assign Power rune correspondeces to each suit separately.  This
  way, we can order each suit for best effect.  For instance, if we base it
  on (one of) the Runic Pentagrams that has been suggested, then the Aces
  could be the overcoming rune of each element, and the 10's the overcome
  rune.  The cards in between would progress in sequence around the
  pentagram.  Thus, for the pentagram given by Nick Brooke in the 5/15
  Daily (the one he said he preferred, that is), the progression would be:

  Value  Darkness   Sea        Earth      Sky        Storm
  Ace    Death      Motion     Harmony    Truth      Luck
  Deuce  Fertility  Stasis     Disorder   Illusion   Fate
  Trey   Harmony    Truth      Luck       Death      Motion
  Four   Disorder   Illusion   Fate       Fertility  Stasis
  Five   Luck       Death      Motion     Harmony    Truth
  Six    Fate       Fertility  Stasis     Disorder   Illusion
  Seven  Motion     Harmony    Truth      Luck       Death
  Eight  Stasis     Disorder   Illusion   Fate       Fertility
  Nine   Truth      Luck       Death      Motion     Harmony
  Ten    Illusion   Fate       Fertility  Stasis     Disorder

  As I said, many of these cards suggest particular deities.  Most of
  them would be repeated in the court cards, however, so they would usually
  not be explicitly depicted here.

>What is the Lunar face card?  I liked your idea of Thane as one of the court.
>Where does lunar fit in?  As a priest/priestess card in every elemental

  I like your idea of having Priestess represent the element of Moon for the
  Lunar deck; it would have qualities such as Madness, Illusion, and Balance.
  It might outrank all the other court cards, or perhaps a more lunar way
  would be for it to vary in rank, as you suggest, representing the phases
  of the moon.  Of course the Lunar deck would be built on the Dara Happan
  tradition, and thus the King would represent Yelm, and the Firey aspects of
  each element.  They'd most likely not have either the Thane or Beast cards;
  for the Stormy aspects (rebellion, treachery, and dishonor) they'd have
  something like the Outlaw, which would rank lowest in the court.  For
  Darkness (representing Death, Fear, and Hatred??) they'd have the Ghost
  perhaps?  Perhaps Beast is appropriate there as well.

  Also, your idea of the lunars appropriating the Major Arcana for their
  number cards is probably not necessary.  So what if they have 21 more cards
  than the "normal" deck, the lunars thrive on complexity; they'd probably
  see it as that much better.

  (BTW, I agree that Eurmal should be a major; having him as 0 is appealing.

>For the Major Arcana, I would nix the cards we know of from the RW, and
>substitute one based on the Form and Condition runes.  NOTE!  In a non-Lunar
>deck, there will be a Moon card as a Form rune!  Also, Chaos COULD be
>associated with the Fool card in traditional Tarot (which is Zero in the
>Major's sequence).   Again, the composition of the Majors will depend on
>local cultic interpretation and acceptance of the runes.  Some might include
>a Hunger rune, others exclude Moon, others not know about Dragonewt, others
>include Law, etc.

  I also see no reason to cling to the RW trumps for this, and the Form and
  Condition runes seem an excellent place to start.  Some of the cards will
  have RW trump equivalents; I see no reason to strive to avoid this either.
  For the most part, representing Form and Condition runes in the Major
  Arcana seems workable.  However, for at least the Condition runes, there
  seems to be pairs of mythic images that represent different aspects.  These
  are (IMHO) fundamental mythic images that should be represented, but that
  have some runic overlap.  But that can be done by using the Power Runes, as

  Runes			Card		RW Equivalent (if any)
  Magic & Harmony	The Priestess	The High Priestess
  Magic & Disorder	The Storm Voice	The Hierophant
  Mastery & Truth	The RuneLord	The Emperor
  Mastery & Illusion	The Trickster	The Fool
  Infinity & Death	The Questers	The Hanged Man
  Infinity & Fertility	The Web		Fortune
  Law & Stasis		The Spike	The Tower
  Law & Motion		The Tribal Ring	Adjustment
  Dragonewt		????		The Hermit
  Plant			????		The Lovers
  Beast			The Berserker	Lust
  Man			Initiation	Death
  Spirit		The Kolating	The Magus
  Chaos			The Devil	The Devil
  Moon			The Moon	The Moon

  I have no ideas for Dragonewt, Plant or Man.

  Well, that's enough for now.  As always, comments are welcome.