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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 93 17:15:14 +0200
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From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Jul 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
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The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
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RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)


From: (charles gregory fried)
Subject: RuneDeck etc.
Date: 14 Jul 93 17:21:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1280

Greg Fried here.

Surely not ALL sex takes place through Uleria.  Just ask Thed....  A very
good example of a deity stealing another deity powers, or horning in on her
So many excellent ideas on RQtarot!  Where to start?
OK.  I agree that a nice touch would be to vary the Power rune sequence upon
the significance of these to the different elements.  I thought your proposed
sequences were good.  I wasn't sure about why some elements "overcome" the
Power rune you placed in the ten spot (Fire - Stasis?).

I would refrain from associating deities too closely with the number cards of
the Minor Arcana.  The Minors, at least as I understand them are meant to be
just that: minor!  They pertain to the day to day questions and concerns of
life.  As far as the imagery of these cards is concerned, I think using the
animal associated with each element (reptiles - Earth; bugs - Darkness, etc.)
would be a nice touch.  Gloranthan Go Fish: "Do you have a 3 of Bugs?"  "No!
Go fish!"  I think the RW Motherpeace deck does a good job of depicting the
daily-life aspect of the Minors; I don't like conventional decks that just
show eight swords, nine swords, ten swords, etc: nothing to associate the
imagination with.  The daily like imagery would depend on the local culture
the deck comes from.  The Motherpeace deck is a good starting place for
matriarcharl Earth cult decks!

GOOD idea that the Lunar deck would interpret Thane as Outlaw, making Storm
an outcast (the Orlanth Outlaw card would look like a Duck in the Lunar
deck!). Darkness could interpret Beast AS Ghost: this isn't too far off for
Zorak Zoran, who in my campaign is the shadow of the Sun -- the Darksun.

And I really liked your suggestion for the Majors, using Condition and Form
runes plus Power runes (with just the Conditions?).  Law + Stasis = Spike is
a lovely notion!  I interpret the Tower card (= Spike card....) as
revelation/insight/apocalypse (which in Greek meens the lifting of the veil).
 The Spike gets shattered, just like the Tower in the RW tarot.  I think
Law+Motion could = Justice:  justice as law applied to changing

Dragonewt as Hermit isn't bad!  Maybe make it simply the Dragon card. 
Dragons DO live apart from the would, dreaming their lonely hermit dreams. 
Perhaps also an equivalent for the World card?  The image of the dragon
biting its tail (Chaoseum!) is a powerful symbol of the cosmos: cycle of
life, reincarnation, dragonewts!

Plant as Lovers seems good.  Primordial, unreflective fertility.  (Hey!  We
all remember puberty!)

Man as Hanged One/Initiation is also good!  I think of humans as the
preeminent beings who are initiated into the mythic world of Glorantha. 
Humans are both a part and apart of and from Glorantha.  As far as I am
concerned, this is why human influence on Nowtime Gloranthan history is so
pivotal, and why the Elder races never quite feel at ease with them.  The
Elder Races aare NATURALLY part of the mythical fabric of Glorantha.  Humans
change that fabric by being initiated (very broadly understood!) into it.  Of
course, these are my own mythopoeic ideas, but they fit well to my mind with
the Man rune as Hanged One/Initiation.  Non-human decks might interpret the
Man rune as food card, alien card, interloper card, pretender card, imbecile
card, etc.

All in all: Kudos, Boris!!

BTW, I use the RW tarot deck to play a game called Go Fate, instead of Go
Fish. This is a fun, silly game, to be played with people with relaxed
nogggins.  Instead of getting three of a kind numerically, you need three of
a kind conceptually.  The point is to get rid of all seven cards originally
dealt to you.  You match cards together in your hands depending on concepts,
then you ask another player, for example: "You got any Angry cards?"  The
player looks through his or her cards.  If he or she can make a case to the
other players that all accept that a card is "Angry", then s/he can fork it
over to the player who asked for it!  This is why you need a friendly,
relaxed group, because it dependes completely on interpretation.  If you
think you have three of a kind conceptually, you need to persuade your fellow
players that you do before you put them down.  Cards with rich images are
critical.  If you ask someone for a card and they don't have any of your
type, they say, "Nope, no  cards: Go Fate!"  This is a good way to
learn the deck, and would work great with a RuneDeck.  House rules evolve of
their own accord with this game.

GF out.


From: (charles gregory fried)
Subject: PC overpopulation
Date: 14 Jul 93 20:49:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1281

Greg Fried here again.

To the person with too many (15!) players in his campaign:
This is my suggestion: INSIST that your players rotate GMing with you.  This
seems to me to be the best option if you are unwilling to boot players out of
your circle.  The rotoating GM operates within the SAME campaign that you
have been running so far.  You should run a few more sessions, encouraging
players to play a lot of attention to the rules.   Meanwhile, insist that
anyone who continues to play tacitly consents to function as GM at some
point.  Then appoint one of you better players to design and GM the next
adventure (lasting from one to many sessions) in the campaign.  You can then
run a character, perhaps a semi-NPC, and act as GM's "consultant" when things
get confusing for the novice.  

Obviously, a campaign with rotating GM presents certain drawbacks as well as
benefits.  Campaign 'secrets' aren't so easy to keep.  But this tactic might
flush a potential GM or two out into the open, who will eventually draw off
some of your players.  Good luck!

GF out.


From: (Tim Leask)
Subject: Re: Dormal and Open Seas
Message-ID: <>
Date: 15 Jul 93 14:56:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1282

I agree with David Cheng, I don't think the open seas spell has to be
a sorcery spell. Paul (Reilly?) suggests that it should be because the
closing of the seas was a sorcery spell. I disagree, consider counter magic
and detection blank these are spirit and divine spells that clearly 
counteract the effect of sorcery. Who's to say that the open seas spell
isn't in fact a great big detection blank for the ship so as to not trigger
the curse. 
At the very least the similarity between Dormal sorcery and Western sorcery
seems very slim.
Just my $0.02,
Department of Computer Science    /*\__/\      "Money is something you have in
University of Melbourne          <       \     case you don't die tomorrow."
Parkville, Vic., 3052, AUSTRALIA  \  _  _/     Gordon Gecko.
Phone: +61 3 282 2439              \| --


Subject: Too Many Players
Message-ID: <>
Date: 15 Jul 93 21:05:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1283

RE: Simon Basham - Too many players

I wouldn't like to try it, but Ken Rolston once played "The Garhound
Contest" with 18 PCs!  

In nobody else wants to Ref (can't say I blame 'em), why not split your group
in two and Ref them seperately.  Rather than transplant one group to another
region, play them both in Prax and get some rivalry friendly going - first 
group to get Balastor's Axe. This approach worked quite well in a Club
Campaign I was once involved with, which at one time had over 20 players and
3 Refs running around the Yelmic Kingdom of Orontes, the prototype of SUN


P.S. A walktapus would explain Gimpy's magic stew-pot - I just wonder what
they're really serving at all those "All you c eat" bistros and
restaurants (Smorgys and Sizzler where I live)???


From: (Rob Mace)
Subject: Re:  RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Jul 1993, part 1
Message-ID: <>
Date: 14 Jul 93 07:33:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1284

Paul R. writes:
>   To Joerg and Rob:
>   There are at least two models which might apply in Glorantha:
> 1.  Deities gain their power from worship and sacrifice, plus a relatively
> small amount of native power and any stolen power.  It is possible to
> 'steal' another deity's worship (e.g., Sheng Seleris and the Red Emperor.)
>   This model might be used by the Malkioni in explaining the pagan gods.
> 2.  The greater deities have truly tremendous power, independent of worship,
> but are bound by the Compromise into using that power in set ways, except
> where free-willed mortals summon the deity's power into the world through
> sacrifice, or when directly confronting Chaos.

Let me try to be clearer on what I am suggesting because it is far from
number 1 above.

The gods are real and have truly tremendous power.  But their form can
be molded by the beliefs of people in time and their ability to directly
manipulate things in time is limited by the power sacrificed to them by
their followers.

>   Thus (for example), EVERY act of sex, every conception of new life, etc.
> is performed through the power of Uleria.  Each such act is magical in
> itself but people are so used to it that they have become jaded.  Similarly,
> each wind is caused by an air god, Flamal causes all plants to grow, etc.,

These are examples of powers not of gods.  A god may embody one or more
of these powers but these powers do not require a god to work.  They work
just as well in lands that are filled with atheistic sorcerers.

> but because they are bound to set patterns of exerting these powers we
> grow used to the miracles around us and call them 'mundane'.  The gods
> may not interfere directly in mortal affairs but instead use proxies like
> Rune Priests, who exchange some of their own power to allow a bit of
> their god's power into the world.
>   This is, I think, a common model among the more sophisticated (barbarian
> and civilized) theistic cultures.  The gods are elevated to the status of
> the prime movers of  the world.

No disagreement here.

>   Evidence for this view:  The primal gods (Arachne Solara, Uleria, Trickster,
> maybe Earth Witch, Hykim & Mykih, Horned Man, a few other examples) seem 
> not to need the usual cult structure to support the powers of their proxies.

Gods don't need formal cult structures, they just need belief.

> >look at the different versions of gods scattered
> >around Generatela
>   In model (2) this is explained by saying that gods have many aspects and 
> are bound by the compromise to not interfere in the Inner World unless invited
> by mortals, so the aspect known locally to the mortals colors how the
> god acts in that region.

The variations go deeper then that.  In some areas a god might be a mix of
multiple gods from other areas.  Or the powers might be quit shuffled.  I
think this goes beyond the many aspects bit.

My basic thesis is that the compromise not only restricts what a god can
do in time, it also binds a god to being manipulated by time.  Actually
it goes deeper then that into the rewriting of godtime.

Basically Glorantha is a world were the world view of everyone that lives
is correct.  The sorcerers are right in their world view, the deists are
right in theirs, the dragonnewts are right in theirs, etc..

More on all this later when I have time.

Rob Mace


Subject: Arrggghhhh!!!!
Message-ID: <9307151119.AA06939@deca>
Date: 15 Jul 93 13:19:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1285

OK, folks, last message coming on......

It's been good having this e-mail account....alas it is no more.  I graduate
TODAY, and henceforth it is unavailable.  I will try to pass along copies of
stuff to those folk I promised it to....(Mark Buckley, Hannu Kokko, John Medway
and others) but it may be a few weeks yet.  Jobhunting is a priority right now.

David Hall:  I hope to send you Kargan Tor shortly....Adam also said a long 
time ago about our system for sorcery...I'll drop you a line surface mail
in the near future.

Nick Brooke:  Keep fighting the Loskalm perfectionists....personally I think
the society sounds suspiciously like that in 1984......note how the best farmers
are passed into the soldiery so that the country is supplied food by the 
worst farmers...keeping the status quo while maintaining the illusion of a 
viable meritocracy.....

Others:  Too many things, but if anyone wants to contact me surface mail-wise,
my address is:

Stephen M Hunt
6 Balfour Terrace

Tel: 0642 825572

For the last time

Better Red Than Dead