From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 25 Aug 1993, part 1 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Spirits Message-ID: <9308240618.AA23530@cs.uwa.edu.au> Date: 24 Aug 93 06:19:06 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1443 > From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu > Subject: ghosts, undead, spirits, POW in Glorantha > Message-ID: <9308231937.AA16770@Sun.COM> > Date: 23 Aug 93 19:11:23 GMT > X-RQ-ID: 1439 > > About the line between ghosts and undead and the nature of POW: > To me the rules on this make no sense; in fact, I'd happily toss out > everything in the RQ2 Magic book. What really grates is the possibility > of spirits taking part as worshippers in temple services, which ought > to make ancestor cults incredibly powerful, not the primitive affairs > they are. Also, if spirits regenerate MPs, what can humans give them > that they would possibly want? Ancestor cults are very powerful for small, family sized cults - they can get real rune magic with a number of live initiates barely big enough to support a shrine. But they are not that powerful as a force because the cults seldom get much bigger than a large family - so no runelords, no subcults, no specialised warrior class, etc. They are acessible, not powerful. The answer to what spirits want if obvious in the GOG write up - they want more power, they want spell knowledge, and they want to interact with the world and help their bloodline (sometimes). They do not 'require' the living to worship them, but it is the only way they can become more than what they are. Near in mind that most spirits (ghosts, etc.) are not worshipped - spirits do not require woship - but some of them like it. > > My proposal: POW stores MPs, but CON regenerates them. Undead have > POW, but no CON (after all, CON = health, and an undead creature is the > least healthy thing imaginable). This way, spirits would need human > contact and have more motivation to be worshipped by or to possess > mortals. This would also slow shamans down some, since their source > of MPs (fetch and bound spirits) wouldn't renew itself automatically. > Shamans need SOMETHING to slow them down. This would require quite a few rules changes. Currently most Undead actually do possess Con, like vampires, ghouls, zombies. Also, I don't think that spirits should require human contact. Most of them should happily fly away from mortal affairs, on to the afterlife. Ghosts, wraiths, and the like are the main exceptions. And most ancestors need to be summoned, I imagine only relatively recent ones turn up of their own accord. > Ancestor cults don't need great temple status anyway; they're there to > summon and bargain with spirits, not to acquire tons of rune spells. > But they are often really small - extended families of 20-80 people would not be uncommon. Without their ancestors, many of them would be getting no rune magic at all - so they would not even be able to summon or bargain with their ancestors. The ancestors counting as initiates means that what would be shrines or less become minor temples (or major if your really lucky, and its a big gathering), not minor temples into great temples. > That's my heretical idea for today. Feel free to flame the hell out > of it. Certainly sir :-) > > nh > David Cake --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) Subject: Chaos in Genertela & Pamaltela; RQ High Concept Message-ID: <9308240616.AA07416@radiomail.net> Date: 24 Aug 93 06:15:48 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1444 >From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au >Subject: Chaos Down South >There's an obscure reference I've had no luck tracking down: somewhere I read >that while chaos manifests as groups of smaller, weaker beings in Genertela, >in Pamaltela chaos monsters tend to be single, unique individuals (eg. Mother >of Monsters). I'm pretty sure Greg or Sandy wrote this somewhere, but where? It's on page 2 of Gloranthan Bestiary. >From: gbailey@aol.com >Subject: RQ introduction; Boldhome >I was playing at a game store and the store owner asked me to describe RQ to >someone asking about it. Besides saying it's >a fantasy RPG, what else can I say about the game within a few >sentences that can get someone interested? Here's my attempt: RuneQuest is a fantasy game where characters don't have to specialize, but can learn the spells and skills they want to. Most characters pick a road to power laid out by a religion, and seek to master that religion's runes. There's no good and evil, it's all relative to your own culture or religion's viewpoint. Glorantha is a land where everyone is a little bit affected by magic. It depicts the clash between a bronze age culture and a technologically superior empire. David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Re: Chaos Down Under Message-ID: <930824070039_100270.337_BHB41-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 07:00:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1445 G'Day, MOB: The reference you want is in the Gloranthan Bestiary, page 2, paragraph at the bottom of the first column. ==== Nick ==== "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" -- attributed to Danfive Xaron --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) Subject: a PenDragon Pass rule Message-ID: <9308240651.AA07648@radiomail.net> Date: 24 Aug 93 06:50:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1446 I couldn't resist posting one of my favorite (tho not-yet-used) PenDragon Pass rules: Fighting in Formation Trained troops can fight in close formation with shield and spear. The first rank uses the Defense tactic and the Battle skill, the second rank attacks with spear. To fight against such a formation, oppose your attack roll against the spear roll. If you're successful, oppose the number rolled against the shield roll to see if you inflict damage. [Option: fighting in formation may not be used until learned (instead of learning a point of skill over a winter).] Example: Suboti's stead is raided by mercenaries from Brolir, who group into a close formation when she leads a counterattack. Suboti rolls a 10, a success with her Sword, which beats the spearman's roll of 2. Now Suboti's 10 is opposed against the shield man's Battle skill of 10, with a +10 modifier for Defense. He rolls a 9, so he gets to parry Suboti's damage roll. This could probably be adapted to RQ. --------------------- From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Donald Wilton) Subject: rq4 Message-ID:Date: 24 Aug 93 00:46:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1447 I've seen the reference. What is it? --------------------- From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK Subject: POW, Spirits, Ancestor Cults and Pamaltela !!! Message-ID: <9308241448.AA08628@Sun.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 14:54:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1448 Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1437 (MOB) Hi MOB do you know what a Grue (Gloranthan Beastury) really is. If not email me personally. Follow thw steps below. Think about the reproductive cycle of the Grue. Think about ALL this entails. This fits in with the Big Beasties in Pamaltela theory. (Ignore the rubbish about Gures being solitary creatures since it was originallywritten up before we knew more about them.) Sorry I can't answer your question about where the original statement came from. Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1439 Nice idea about LIFE = CON regenerating magic points, however I am not sure that this is workable in RQ Glorantha (at least without a very major rewrite). Anyway with regard to your comment about the power of ancestor cults. Given that the number of living worshippers is one extended family of typically 10 to 40 creatures the rune spells provided by ancestor cults are pretty meaty. The only way to justify these benifits is through the participation of large numbers of spirit worshippers. The power of ancestor cults is limited by the fact that only family can join thus they have no universal appeal. However, it is perfectly possible for such cults to gain power as in the case of Duke Raus of Rhone, this power is largely temporal as the vaste masses cannot join the cult to give it spiritual power. Now, the reason why baboons and other primitives have uncivilized societies is primarily because they have a successful lifestyle and thus few presures to change; isolation (whether social or physical) can also greatly encourage these cultures to preserve their way of life. External pressures are generally what forces a culture (or an individual for that matter) to change. Thus a family of baboons trekking through the wastes of Prax avoiding contact with other folk and scavenging enough to eat will generally survive O.K. Also remember that older folk find it hard to change (and ancestral spirits who the family uses for guidance are no exception). Thus these cultures will generally have significant forces preserving their lifestyle and only strong external pressure will force them to change. ----- Lewis ----- --------------------- From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: ghosts, undead, spirits, POW in Glorantha Message-ID: <9308241637.aa08207@uk.ac.ed.castle> Date: 24 Aug 93 15:37:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1449 I like the 'only creatures with CON can regenerate MPs' idea. If spirits can only get their MPs by donation then this is a powerfull incentive for spirits to be very loyal to their cult. In fact this could be where all those MPs sacrificed during worship go to. Presumably the ancestral spirits which hang out at Daka Fal ceremonies are there to recieve MPs rather than sacrifice them. I had been woried about the rule in RQ4 which allows shamans to give MPs to spirits to appease them. According to RQ the spirit has little to gain from this. However if spirits can't regenerate their own MPs it makes perfect sense. A few further points : 1. It is no longer reasonable to assume that encountered spirits will automaticaly be at full MPs. Particularly dumb spirits such as power spirits. 2. What is the situation concerning a shaman's fetch? I would say the fetch does regenerate MPs due to the link with the shaman, but I am biased because I run a shaman character regularly :) 3. If I remember correctly, elementals don't have CON, so presumably they would not regenerate MPs either. 4. I think wraiths have CON, but no POW. This is a bit difficult to deal with. I think they should not be able to regenerate MPs either, I think the description specificaly states this. Anyway, they are unusual in having a method of stealing MPs anyway. Perhaps you have to have POW and CON to be able to regenerate MPs. Overall I realy like this idea, even if it does slow my shaman character down a bit, it makes for a far more interesting game for shamans. Now I realy have a good bargaining possition when I am dealing with spirits. I have got something they realy want. Simon D. Hibbs --------------------- From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: RQ introduction Message-ID: <9308241639.aa08540@uk.ac.ed.castle> Date: 24 Aug 93 15:38:59 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1450 Describe Runequest in xxx words, sounds like a good competition :). The following is my attempt, the bit about tribes/clans is based on the fact you are running the game in Sartar. "Runequest uses an easily adaptable game system, set in a world with a rich mythological flavour. You belong to a tribe or clan with it's own legends, heroes and unique magic. You battle strange foreign invaders which worships twisted gods." The thing which seems to slow down RQ for new players is the strike rank system. The last time I ran RQ(4) with new players, I used the Call of Cthulhu initiative system : Act in DEX order, 2 actions a round (attack, parry, cast a spirit spell, load a missile weapon, etc). This works fine and only takes a minute to explain. Sandy Petersen claims he uses the CoC rules for every RPG he plays, presumably including Gloranthan games. Seems like a good idea to me. The SR and hit location system rules are a real pain. Stormbringer and CoC manage perfectly well without them. Simon D. Hibbs --------------------- From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) Subject: I have a name now Message-ID: <9308241807.AA09158@Sun.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 17:37:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1451 To MOB: the quote you're looking for is in the Glorantha Bestiary, I think that's its name, the AH book with the Morocanth on the cover. It's in the introductory part opposite the list of all the creatures in the book. To Greg Fried: Thanks for the East isles module. I haven't had time to study it yet. I have work to do. Later nh --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: chaos in Glorantha Message-ID: Date: 24 Aug 93 18:17:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1452 Greg FRied here. MOB: If memory serves me, the difference in the manifestations of chaos in Genertela as opposed to Pamaltela was discusses here in the Digest. If you have access to the old issuesa, perhpas you could do a word search. In that discussion, you might find a clue to the reference you seek. SOrry I can't help more. --- nh: I also like your thoughts on spirits and undead, but I wasn't sure then what DISTINGUISHES spirits from undead for you, since both lack CON. --- Everyone: I am now convinced that the survival of RuneQuest (and so the continued publication of GLoranthan lore!) demands the promulgation of a RQLite (although probably not to marketed under that name!). Reading thru Dorastor: Land of Doom (which I love -- don't get me wrong), I was struck by just how arcane our beloved game is. A PhD in Gloranthan history would be helpful for running a campaign, and a silicon computational brain implant would be nice to run an encounter with some of the hyper-complex grossites that one can run into, simply because the combat game mechanics get so involved. Though you and I may lap this up, I doubt that of the few pointy-headed people to whom frp games appeal, many are so pointy-headed as to be seduced from other games to ours. In D&D, all you need is a THACO, an AC and HP and yer off and running! If RQ is to break into new markets, we desperately need a system that can allow new players to pick it up and play readily. Only then can we convert players of other systems en masse, and make broad inroads into uncharted European (and other) markets. I think that we all should begin talking about this seriously so that by the time of RQ Con, we all at least will have a common vocabulary of concerns and can present the prime-movers of the game with a coherent plea. Very provisionally, these are my criteria for a successful RQLite: 1) Affordability. THe game must be something that someone could buy on a whim, not because they've played for a while, been converted, and finally splurge for the boxed set. 2) Playability. The game mechanics must be simple enough to allow new players (and GMs) to get started without being overwhelmed. 3) Convertability. One should be able to convert both from RQ to RQLite without too much trouble, and from RQLite to RQ. This would allow RQ experts to run a campaign for beginners, and allow a GM to 'graduate' a campaign up to a more intricate level of play. Ideally, a scenario pack should be able to be used by both types of campaign. 4) Lots of scenario packs! And cheap! I agree that the selling point of RQ is GLORANTHA and the richness that its campaign settings provide -- not RQ game mechanics in of themselves (although there is much to be said for them). Just for starters, I would look at Roderick Robertson's RQ Wargame rules (see the Daily, May 19, 93): attack and defense skills as composites of several factors; one roll to hit and to defend, and then another roll to see if damage wounds, incapacitates or kills. I don't know Pendragon's rules, but perhaps its 1-20 (?) scale on skills would also be a good model. GF out. --------------------- From: werewolf@vnet.IBM.COM (Charles Keith-Stanley) Subject: RQ-Con (X-RQ-Id 1435) Message-ID: <9308242106.AA07092@Sun.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 20:58:31 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1453 On 22 Aug 93 02:53:02 GMT, nrobinso@sirius.UVic.CA (Neil Robinson) said: > Arrgghhhh..... > > Why oh why does that RQ-Con have to in Maryland? I have to cross > an entire continent to get there and at great expense! It is ALMOST > enough to convince me not to go. Almost. :-) Y'know, there're a whole lot of us RuneQuesters on the west coast who would dearly love to be in Maryland for RQCon. If there are enough of us we could probably get a Real Good Price on a charter flight. Why don't y'all send me a brief note so I can see if there's enough demand, and I'll find out if we can get a bargain. Direct your mail to: by the 31st of August and I'll see what I can come up with -- and if you know you represent several people (like in my group, Phil Davis's west-coast campaign) then also indicate how many people are interested. I suspect we'd have to agree on a central point to gather, which for me at least would be the Greater San Francisco Bay. At least you would only have to get *here* from where you are, not all the way across the continent! Howlingly yours, The Werewolf of London | Sister lovers, | Quote of the month: (Ah-rooooooooooooooo!) | Water brothers; | Her kisses left something | And in time, | to be desired -- the rest werewolf@vnet.ibm.com | Maybe others... | of her! --------------------- From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall) Subject: More Megacorp stuff Message-ID: <930824202940_100116.2616_BHJ28-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 20:29:40 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1454 MOB, the place where the nature of Chaos in Pamaltela is mentioned is in The Gloranthan Bestiary (RQ3), page 2. By the way, how is issue #11 coming on?! The Collected Griselda. After Henk's gushing praise (thanks, Henk - the money is in the post), he and I received a number of queries about its availability outside of the UK. So this is the position: Europe. Available now from your local reps in Sweden, Germany, Italy, Finland & France. Pester your reps in Switzerland and Norway to order some. USA & Canada. There are about 80 on a tea clipper somewhere in the Atlantic. ETA next month, or the one after. Contact David Gadbois for pre-orders. Australia. There are just 20 copies on a tramp steamer rounding the Cape of Good Hope. ETA two or three months. Contact MOB for pre-orders. Elsewhere contact me or your nearest Megacorp rep! For anyone in the UK who hasn't got a copy (and the Tales reps), I have about 200 left in stock. It won't be reprinted (or at least not until RQ is as popular as AD&D). Wyrms Footprints. My apologies are due as "later this Summer" was mightily optimistic. Cash flow problems and lack of time will delay production until at least the end of the year. But I do really want to get it printed before RQ Con. Also the Revised Stafford Compendium is now officially out of print. David Gadbois may have some? Have you got any MOB? There are no plans to reprint this either. Anyone got any reports from Gencon? Cheers, David Hall --------------------- From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Gloranthan jokes? You asked for it... Message-ID: <9308242245.AA20327@Sun.COM> Date: 24 Aug 93 22:48:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1455 MOB made the terrible mistake of asking: > Anyone else got Gloranthan jokes? Q: How many Humakti does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: None -- the light has died, and death must not be denied. Q: How many Storm Bull berserks does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: It glows without magic or fire? KILL CHAOS!!!!!!! Q: How many Chalana Arroy Healers does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: One -- but you'll have to donate half your immediate income to the Hospital, and 10% of your earnings for the next year. Q: How many Illuminates does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: How many light bulbs does it take to screw in an Illuminate? Q: How many Broo does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: One -- a Broo can screw *anything*. Q: How many Trolkin does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: (Crunch, gobble, munch) What light bulb, Master? Q: How many Lunars does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Twenty-three. Three Lunar spies to gather information about the bulb, nineteen priests and officials set up in an Imperially-mandated committee to analyze the findings and publish a report, and one hired barbarian mercenary to carry out their recommendations. Someone, please, stop me... It'll probably mean a plunge in circulation, but some of the above first appeared in various issues of "Rack & Rune" in _The Wild Hunt_. For those who don't know what _The Wild Hunt_ is, take a look in the "Other Sources" section of the RuneQuest II book. -->Pete ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci Malden, Massachusetts pete@slough.mit.edu or rune@trystero.com or rune@ace.com "If you don't want to kiss Duke Munchkin's ass, you can pretty much kiss your own goodbye." -- Traditional NERO saying (spurious). 8^>} --------------------- From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates) Subject: Another One! Message-ID: <9308250043.AA04194@Sun.COM> Date: 25 Aug 93 00:46:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1456 I JUST CAN"T HELP MYSELF! Q: How many Orlanthi does it take to change a light bulb? A: One to change the bulb and take the credit, plus six Lightbringers to retrieve the spare bulb from Hell. HEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPPP!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci Malden, Massachusetts pete@slough.mit.edu or rune@trystero.com or rune@ace.com "Son, I am able," she said "though you scare me." "Watch," said I "Beloved," I said, "watch me scare you though." Said she "Able am I, Son." TMBG