Bell Digest v930825p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 25 Aug 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk

The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.

Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue.  Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily...  on replying.

Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest.  If you 
want to submit articles to the Digest only,  contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.

Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:

RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)

---------------------

From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Spirits
Message-ID: <9308240618.AA23530@cs.uwa.edu.au>
Date: 24 Aug 93 06:19:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1443

> From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu
> Subject: ghosts, undead, spirits, POW in Glorantha
> Message-ID: <9308231937.AA16770@Sun.COM>
> Date: 23 Aug 93 19:11:23 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 1439
> 
> About the line between ghosts and undead and the nature of POW:
> To me the rules on this make no sense; in fact, I'd happily toss out
> everything in the RQ2 Magic book.  What really grates is the possibility
> of spirits taking part as worshippers in temple services, which ought
> to make ancestor cults incredibly powerful, not the primitive affairs
> they are.  Also, if spirits regenerate MPs, what can humans give them
> that they would possibly want?

Ancestor cults are very powerful for small, family sized cults - they can 
get real rune magic with a number of live initiates barely big enough to
support a shrine. But they are not that powerful as a force because the cults
seldom get much bigger than a large family - so no runelords, no subcults,
no specialised warrior class, etc. They are acessible, not powerful.
	The answer to what spirits want if obvious in the GOG write up - they
want more power, they want spell knowledge, and they want to interact with the
world and help their bloodline (sometimes). They do not 'require' the living
to worship them, but it is the only way they can become more than what they
are. Near in mind that most spirits (ghosts, etc.) are not worshipped - 
spirits do not require woship - but some of them like it.
> 
> My proposal:  POW stores MPs, but CON regenerates them.  Undead have
> POW, but no CON (after all, CON = health, and an undead creature is the
> least healthy thing imaginable).  This way, spirits would need human
> contact and have more motivation to be worshipped by or to possess
> mortals.  This would also slow shamans down some, since their source
> of MPs (fetch and bound spirits) wouldn't renew itself automatically.
> Shamans need SOMETHING to slow them down.
	This would require quite a few rules changes. Currently most Undead
actually do possess Con, like vampires, ghouls, zombies. 
	Also, I don't think that spirits should require human contact. Most of
them should happily fly away from mortal affairs, on to the afterlife. Ghosts,
wraiths, and the like are the main exceptions. And most ancestors need to be
summoned, I imagine only relatively recent ones turn up of their own accord.

> Ancestor cults don't need great temple status anyway; they're there to
> summon and bargain with spirits, not to acquire tons of rune spells.
> 
But they are often really small - extended families of 20-80 people would not
be uncommon. Without their ancestors, many of them would be getting no rune
magic at all - so they would not even be able to summon or bargain with their
ancestors. The ancestors counting as initiates means that what would be shrines
or less become minor temples (or major if your really lucky, and its a big
gathering), not minor temples into great temples.
> That's my heretical idea for today.  Feel free to flame the hell out
> of it.  
Certainly sir :-)
> 
> nh
>
	David Cake
 


---------------------

From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham  , via RadioMail)
Subject: Chaos in Genertela & Pamaltela; RQ High Concept
Message-ID: <9308240616.AA07416@radiomail.net>
Date: 24 Aug 93 06:15:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1444

>From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
>Subject: Chaos Down South
>There's an obscure reference I've had no luck tracking down: somewhere I read
>that while chaos manifests as groups of smaller, weaker beings in Genertela,
>in Pamaltela chaos monsters tend to be single, unique individuals (eg. Mother
>of Monsters).  I'm pretty sure Greg or Sandy wrote this somewhere, but where?

It's on page 2 of Gloranthan Bestiary.

>From: gbailey@aol.com
>Subject: RQ introduction; Boldhome
>I was playing at a game store and the store owner asked me to describe RQ to
>someone asking about it.  Besides saying it's 
>a fantasy RPG, what else can I say about the game within a few
>sentences that can get someone interested?

Here's my attempt:

RuneQuest is a fantasy game where characters don't have to specialize, but
can learn the spells and skills they want to. Most characters pick a road
to power laid out by a religion, and seek to master that religion's runes.
There's no good and evil, it's all relative to your own culture or
religion's viewpoint.

Glorantha is a land where everyone is a little bit affected by magic. It
depicts the clash between a bronze age culture and a technologically
superior empire.

David Dunham * Software Designer  *  Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net


---------------------

From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Re: Chaos Down Under
Message-ID: <930824070039_100270.337_BHB41-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 07:00:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1445

G'Day, MOB:

The reference you want is in the Gloranthan Bestiary, page 2, paragraph at 
the bottom of the first column.

====
Nick
====

"The Moon is a Harsh Mistress"
-- attributed to Danfive Xaron

---------------------

From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham  , via RadioMail)
Subject: a PenDragon Pass rule
Message-ID: <9308240651.AA07648@radiomail.net>
Date: 24 Aug 93 06:50:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1446

I couldn't resist posting one of my favorite (tho not-yet-used) PenDragon
Pass rules:

Fighting in Formation
Trained troops can fight in close formation with shield and spear. The
first rank uses the Defense tactic and the Battle skill, the second rank
attacks with spear. To fight against such a formation, oppose your attack
roll against the spear roll. If you're successful, oppose the number rolled
against the shield roll to see if you inflict damage. [Option: fighting in
formation may not be used until learned (instead of learning a point of
skill over a winter).]

Example: Suboti's stead is raided by mercenaries from Brolir, who group
into a close formation when she leads a counterattack. Suboti rolls a 10, a
success with her Sword, which beats the spearman's roll of 2. Now Suboti's
10 is opposed against the shield man's Battle skill of 10, with a +10
modifier for Defense. He rolls a 9, so he gets to parry Suboti's damage
roll.

This could probably be adapted to RQ.


---------------------

From: glidedw@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Donald Wilton)
Subject: rq4
Message-ID: 
Date: 24 Aug 93 00:46:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1447


I've seen the reference. What is it?



---------------------

From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: POW, Spirits, Ancestor Cults and Pamaltela !!!
Message-ID: <9308241448.AA08628@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 14:54:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1448


Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1437 (MOB)

Hi MOB do you know what a Grue (Gloranthan Beastury) really is.  
If not email me personally.  Follow thw steps below.  

	Think about the reproductive cycle of the Grue.  
	Think about ALL this entails.  
	This fits in with the Big Beasties in Pamaltela theory.

(Ignore the rubbish about Gures being solitary creatures since it was originallywritten up before we knew more about them.)
Sorry I can't answer your question about where the original statement came from.
Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1439

Nice idea about LIFE = CON regenerating magic points, however I am not sure 
that this is workable in RQ Glorantha (at least without a very major rewrite).

Anyway with regard to your comment about the power of ancestor cults.  
Given that the number of living worshippers is one extended family of 
typically 10 to 40 creatures the rune spells provided by ancestor cults 
are pretty meaty.  The only way to justify these benifits is through the 
participation of large numbers of spirit worshippers.  
The power of ancestor cults is limited by the fact that only family can join 
thus they have no universal appeal.  However, it is perfectly possible for 
such cults to gain power as in the case of Duke Raus of Rhone, this power 
is largely temporal as the vaste masses cannot join the cult to give it 
spiritual power.  

Now, the reason why baboons and other primitives have uncivilized societies 
is  primarily because they have a successful lifestyle and thus few presures 
to change; isolation (whether social or physical) can also greatly encourage 
these cultures to preserve their way of life.  External pressures are generally 
what forces a culture (or an individual for that matter) to change.  
Thus a family of baboons trekking through the wastes of Prax avoiding contact 
with other folk and scavenging enough to eat will generally survive O.K. 
Also remember that older folk find it hard to change (and ancestral spirits 
who the family uses for guidance are no exception).  Thus these cultures 
will generally have significant forces preserving their lifestyle and only 
strong external pressure will force them to change.   

-----
Lewis
-----

---------------------

From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: ghosts, undead, spirits, POW in Glorantha
Message-ID: <9308241637.aa08207@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 24 Aug 93 15:37:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1449

I like the 'only creatures with CON can regenerate MPs' idea. If spirits
can only get their MPs by donation then this is a powerfull incentive
for spirits to be very loyal to their cult. In fact this could be where
all those MPs sacrificed during worship go to. Presumably the ancestral
spirits which hang out at Daka Fal ceremonies are there to recieve MPs
rather than sacrifice them.

I had been woried about the rule in RQ4 which allows shamans to give MPs to
spirits to appease them. According to RQ the spirit has little to gain from
this. However if spirits can't regenerate their own MPs it makes perfect sense.

A few further points :

1.	It is no longer reasonable to assume that encountered spirits will
	automaticaly be at full MPs. Particularly dumb spirits such as
	power spirits.

2.	What is the situation concerning a shaman's fetch? I would say the
	fetch does regenerate MPs due to the link with the shaman, but I
	am biased because I run a shaman character regularly :)

3.	If I remember correctly, elementals don't have CON, so presumably
	they would not regenerate MPs either.

4.	I think wraiths have CON, but no POW. This is a bit difficult to
	deal with. I think they should not be able to regenerate MPs
	either, I think the description specificaly states this. Anyway,
	they are unusual in having a method of stealing MPs anyway.
	Perhaps you have to have POW and CON to be able to regenerate MPs.

Overall I realy like this idea, even if it does slow my shaman character down
a bit, it makes for a far more interesting game for shamans. Now I realy have
a good bargaining possition when I am dealing with spirits. I have got
something they realy want.

Simon D. Hibbs


---------------------

From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: RQ introduction
Message-ID: <9308241639.aa08540@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 24 Aug 93 15:38:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1450

Describe Runequest in xxx words, sounds like a good competition :).
The following is my attempt, the bit about tribes/clans is based on
the fact you are running the game in Sartar.

"Runequest uses an easily adaptable game system, set in a world with a rich
mythological flavour. You belong to a tribe or clan with it's own legends, heroes
and unique magic. You battle strange foreign invaders which worships twisted gods."

The thing which seems to slow down RQ for new players is the strike rank
system. The last time I ran RQ(4) with new players, I used the Call of Cthulhu
initiative system : Act in DEX order, 2 actions a round (attack, parry, cast
a spirit spell, load a missile weapon, etc). This works fine and only takes
a minute to explain.

Sandy Petersen claims he uses the CoC rules for every RPG he plays, presumably
including Gloranthan games. Seems like a good idea to me. The SR and hit location
system rules are a real pain. Stormbringer and CoC manage perfectly well without them.

Simon D. Hibbs

---------------------

From: C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: I have a name now
Message-ID: <9308241807.AA09158@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 17:37:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1451

To MOB: the quote you're looking for is in the Glorantha Bestiary, I
think that's its name, the AH book with the Morocanth on the cover.  It's
in the introductory part opposite the list of all the creatures in the book.

To Greg Fried:  Thanks for the East isles module.  I haven't had time to
study it yet.

I have work to do.  Later
nh

---------------------

From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: chaos in Glorantha
Message-ID: 
Date: 24 Aug 93 18:17:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1452


Greg FRied here.

MOB:
If memory serves me, the difference in the manifestations of chaos in
Genertela as opposed to Pamaltela was discusses here in the Digest.  If you
have access to the old issuesa, perhpas you could do a word search.  In that
discussion, you might find a clue to the reference you seek.  SOrry I can't
help more.
---
nh:
I also like your thoughts on spirits and undead, but I wasn't sure then what
DISTINGUISHES spirits from undead for you, since both lack CON.  
---
Everyone:
I am now convinced that the survival of RuneQuest (and so the continued
publication of GLoranthan lore!) demands the promulgation of a RQLite
(although probably not to marketed under that name!).  Reading thru Dorastor:
Land of Doom (which I love -- don't get me wrong), I was struck by just how
arcane our beloved game is.  A PhD in Gloranthan history would be helpful for
running a campaign, and a silicon computational brain implant would be nice
to run an encounter with some of the hyper-complex grossites that one can run
into, simply because the combat game mechanics get so involved.

Though you and I may lap this up, I doubt that of the few pointy-headed
people to whom frp games appeal, many are so pointy-headed as to be seduced
from other games to ours.  In D&D, all you need is a THACO, an AC and HP and
yer off and running!  

If RQ is to break into new markets, we desperately need a system that can
allow new players to pick it up and play readily.  Only then can we convert
players of other systems en masse, and make broad inroads into uncharted
European (and other) markets.

I think that we all should begin talking about this seriously so that by the
time of RQ Con, we all at least will have a common vocabulary of concerns and
can present the prime-movers of the game with a coherent plea.

Very provisionally, these are my criteria for a successful RQLite:

1) Affordability.  THe game must be something that someone could buy on a
whim, not because they've played for a while, been converted, and finally
splurge for the boxed set.

2) Playability.  The game mechanics must be simple enough to allow new
players (and GMs) to get started without being overwhelmed.

3) Convertability.  One should be able to convert both from RQ to RQLite
without too much trouble, and from RQLite to RQ.  This would allow RQ experts
to run a campaign for beginners, and allow a GM to 'graduate' a campaign up
to a more intricate level of play.  Ideally, a scenario pack should be able
to be used by both types of campaign.

4)  Lots of scenario packs!  And cheap!

I agree that the selling point of RQ is GLORANTHA and the richness that its
campaign settings provide -- not RQ game mechanics in of themselves (although
there is much to be said for them).

Just for starters, I would look at Roderick Robertson's RQ Wargame rules (see
the Daily, May 19, 93): attack and defense skills as composites of several
factors; one roll to hit and to defend, and then another roll to see if
damage wounds, incapacitates or kills.  I don't know Pendragon's rules, but
perhaps its 1-20 (?) scale on skills would also be a good model.

GF out.

---------------------

From: werewolf@vnet.IBM.COM (Charles Keith-Stanley)
Subject: RQ-Con (X-RQ-Id 1435)
Message-ID: <9308242106.AA07092@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 20:58:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1453

On 22 Aug 93 02:53:02 GMT, nrobinso@sirius.UVic.CA (Neil Robinson) said:

> Arrgghhhh.....
>
> Why oh why does that RQ-Con have to in Maryland?  I have to cross
> an entire continent to get there and at great expense!  It is ALMOST
> enough to convince me not to go.  Almost. :-)

Y'know, there're a whole lot of us RuneQuesters on the west coast who would
dearly love to be in Maryland for RQCon. If there are enough of us we could
probably get a Real Good Price on a charter flight. Why don't y'all send me
a brief note so I can see if there's enough demand, and I'll find out if we
can get a bargain.

Direct your mail to:  by the 31st of August and I'll
see what I can come up with -- and if you know you represent several people
(like in my group, Phil Davis's west-coast campaign) then also indicate how
many people are interested. I suspect we'd have to agree on a central point
to gather, which for me at least would be the Greater San Francisco Bay. At
least you would only have to get *here* from where you are, not all the way
across the continent!

Howlingly yours,

The Werewolf of London     |  Sister lovers,   |  Quote of the month:
(Ah-rooooooooooooooo!)     |  Water brothers;  |  Her kisses left something
                           |  And in time,     |  to be desired -- the rest
werewolf@vnet.ibm.com      |  Maybe others...  |  of her!

---------------------

From: 100116.2616@CompuServe.COM (David Hall)
Subject: More Megacorp stuff
Message-ID: <930824202940_100116.2616_BHJ28-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 20:29:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1454

MOB, the place where the nature of Chaos in Pamaltela is mentioned is in 
The Gloranthan Bestiary (RQ3), page 2. By the way, how is issue #11 coming 
on?!

The Collected Griselda. After Henk's gushing praise (thanks, Henk - the 
money is in the post), he and I received a number of queries about its 
availability outside of the UK. So this is the position:

Europe. Available now from your local reps in Sweden, Germany, Italy, 
Finland & France. Pester your reps in Switzerland and Norway to order some.

USA & Canada. There are about 80 on a tea clipper somewhere in the 
Atlantic. ETA next month, or the one after. Contact David Gadbois for 
pre-orders.

Australia. There are just 20 copies on a tramp steamer rounding the Cape of 
Good Hope. ETA two or three months. Contact MOB for pre-orders.

Elsewhere contact me or your nearest Megacorp rep!

For anyone in the UK who hasn't got a copy (and the Tales reps), I have 
about 200 left in stock. It won't be reprinted (or at least not until RQ is 
as popular as AD&D).

Wyrms Footprints. My apologies are due as "later this Summer" was mightily 
optimistic. Cash flow problems and lack of time will delay production until 
at least the end of the year. But I do really want to get it printed before 
RQ Con. 

Also the Revised Stafford Compendium is now officially out of print. David 
Gadbois may have some? Have you got any MOB? There are no plans to reprint 
this either. 

Anyone got any reports from Gencon?

Cheers,

David Hall

---------------------

From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: Gloranthan jokes? You asked for it...
Message-ID: <9308242245.AA20327@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 93 22:48:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1455

MOB made the terrible mistake of asking:

> Anyone else got Gloranthan jokes?

	Q: How many Humakti does it take to screw in a light bulb?
	A: None -- the light has died, and death must not be denied.


	Q: How many Storm Bull berserks does it take to screw in a 
light bulb?
	A: It glows without magic or fire? KILL CHAOS!!!!!!!


	Q: How many Chalana Arroy Healers does it take to screw in 
a light bulb?
	A: One -- but you'll have to donate half your immediate
income to the Hospital, and 10% of your earnings for the next year.


	Q: How many Illuminates does it take to screw in a light bulb?
	A: How many light bulbs does it take to screw in an Illuminate?


	Q: How many Broo does it take to screw in a light bulb?
	A: One -- a Broo can screw *anything*.


	Q: How many Trolkin does it take to screw in a light bulb?
	A: (Crunch, gobble, munch) What light bulb, Master?


	Q: How many Lunars does it take to screw in a light bulb?
	A: Twenty-three. Three Lunar spies to gather information about
the bulb, nineteen priests and officials set up in an Imperially-mandated
committee to analyze the findings and publish a report, and one hired
barbarian mercenary to carry out their recommendations.


	Someone, please, stop me...

	It'll probably mean a plunge in circulation, but some of the 
above first appeared in various issues of "Rack & Rune" in _The Wild
Hunt_. For those who don't know what _The Wild Hunt_ is, take a look
in the "Other Sources" section of the RuneQuest II book.

								-->Pete
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci                                          Malden, Massachusetts
pete@slough.mit.edu      or      rune@trystero.com      or      rune@ace.com
"If you don't want to kiss Duke Munchkin's ass, you can pretty much kiss
your own goodbye."  -- Traditional NERO saying (spurious). 8^>}
 

---------------------

From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: Another One!
Message-ID: <9308250043.AA04194@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Aug 93 00:46:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1456

	I JUST CAN"T HELP MYSELF!

	Q: How many Orlanthi does it take to change a light bulb?
	A: One to change the bulb and take the credit, plus six 
Lightbringers to retrieve the spare bulb from Hell.

	HEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPPP!!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci                                          Malden, Massachusetts
pete@slough.mit.edu      or      rune@trystero.com      or      rune@ace.com
"Son, I am able," she said "though you scare me." "Watch," said I "Beloved,"
I said, "watch me scare you though." Said she "Able am I, Son."      TMBG