From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 27 Aug 1993, part 1 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK Subject: (2d10)**2 and Bucky Players Message-ID: <9308261134.AA09727@Sun.COM> Date: 26 Aug 93 11:41:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1466 Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1460 (Donald Wilson) Sorry Donald, while I agree with the need for speed (and simplicity) I hate your idea. 1) Your final points total (2d10 squared) ranges from 4 to 400! Thus one in a hundred characters are automatically dead before play (stats of 0). The average of 121 (She roll absolutely average not above) is O.K. but I am dubious about the cost of peripheral skills (too high) so characters will be too specialized. 2) No disincentive for really high stats and skills. For example for a long term character (with the potential for real grossness try the following for 121 points): STR 9, CON 18, SIZ 10, INT 18, POW 9, DEX 13, APP 3. Axe 200, Shield 100, Ride 100, Lance 100, Bow 200, Sense Chaos 100, First Aid 753 Wheels to buy a weapon! A scarred Storm Bull Berserk. O.K. so he will find things a little tough at first (he should have an axe and a shield but not much else. But his combat skill should see him through a beginning adventure, at least until another party member falls over dead and he can borrow his armour! 3) If someone (1 in 100) get 400 points to spend the can create a ready made hero questor. Oh, well I'll shut up now, but I hope you get the point. Remember if there are loop holes in the system then the players will find them and use them. Ref: X-RQ-ID: 1461 (Simon Hibbs) So your players don't want to play a simplified system. Tell them that you will be running it your way from now on and if they want to play *normal* RQ3 then one of them can GM it. This should give you a well earned break and also a chance to play). ----- Lewis ----- --------------------- From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Tim Beecher) Subject: Digest: Submission Message-ID: <9308261450.AA03084@timbee.rnd.symix.com.symix> Date: 26 Aug 93 14:50:41 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1467 Someone asked for some humor so : River of Cradles Song [Take me to the River by the Talking Heads , obvious Thanatar sympathizers] ================================================== Don't know why I adventure like I do All the fighting that I go through Used up my Crystals and all of my Clacks When this is done I may never come back I want to know Can you tell me What's that heading our way ? Refrain: Take me to the River Cradle's in the Water Take me to the River Lead me to the Slaughter Washing it down Washing it I don't know why it hurt's so bad This has been the most wounds I've had Fought some spirits , fought some broos Is there treasure or is it a ruse ? I want to know Can you tell me What's that oozing our way ? Tim Beecher --------------------- From: eco0kkn@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann) Subject: That girl on the cover Message-ID: <9308261429.AA02743@cabell.vcu.edu> Date: 26 Aug 93 14:29:49 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1468 Greg Fried asked about the woman on the cover of Shadows on the Borderlands and River of Cradles Yes, it is intentionally the same person. No one seems to have noticed that the semi-nordic looking guy is also the same person. (Raupp had to point this out to me.) This continues Chaosium's fine old tradition of having non-cheesecake women on the covers. Think of the old RQ I & II cover! The character is not from one of Raupp's campaigns. As far as I know, he doesn't play. I believe that Ken did the original conception of the characters. There is no history or name for any of them. In my original art order for the upcoming Strangers in Prax, I also included these two characters, with a few more improvements to their gear, and other changes to their appearance. However, A different cover is being done that may or may not inclde them. If I get my way, it will, though they will not have the same starring roles in the compositon, that being reserved for the Lunar Coders debarking from a Moon Boat. Of course, they may not be recognizable when rendered by other artists. M >|< MIke Dawson --------------------- From: nrobinso@sirius.UVic.CA (Neil Robinson) Subject: RQLite Message-ID: <32248.nrobinso@sirius.uvic.ca> Date: 26 Aug 93 16:57:25 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1469 I tend to agree on the RQLite topic, despite my history as a rules lawyer and 'character optimizer'. Where did I come to this conclusion? As soon as I started GMing with new players. RQ is a very powerful and flexible system. We have found it very easy to tailor the rules, adding new skills and combat options, changing the spell system, and including more detailed circle and summoning magic (ala Stormbringer). When a new person enters our regular game, he (or she) has a lot of learning to do, especially if he is new to role-playing. Then a friend approached me to GM him, his girlfriend, and another girl. I leapt at the chance. Of them, only one was familiar with any game system (AD&D), so I decided to use my version of RQ. When rolling up the characters, I quickly discovered two things: neither girl was interested in the 'rules', and all three were having trouble picking it up. OK, I thought, how do I get around this problem. Coming from a wargamer background, I've never had a problem picking up and remembering rules. What I did was simple, and seems to have been emulated by others as well. I removed the hit location concept and went into a combat system like Stormbringer or BRP (remember that Chaosium product?). That helped, but two of them still got hung up on the rules. At that point I started managing all the rules for all the characters myself, including hit point monitoring and other skills. Heck, I've run AD&D combats with zoodles of characters, so this wasn't too hard for me. We don't have many combats anyway. As time goes on, I keep increasing the amount of responsiblity of the players and their knowledge of the gaming system. However, I try to make sure that it does not interfere with the story/adventure/ atmosphere. The game is also improving as my GMing skills do. My system works well providing the DM is familiar with RQ. However, the real goal is to convert the DMs, as they are the ones who drive the game, and the people who are getting into RPGs without any previous knowledge. I see no problem with scenario packs that support both RQ, and a yet-to-be-determined RQlite as well. Heck, I haven't had much trouble modifying Stormbringer modules since those rules are quite similar. Unlike some modules from a company in Lake Geneva, the RQ and Stormbringer modules usually deal more with plot, descriptions and characterization than stats and game rules. Whew... Neil Robinson | "Never underestimate the power of human nrobinso@sirius.uvic.ca | stupidity." - L. Long 2996 Dysart Rd. Victoria B.C. V9A 2K2 (604) 385-1642 --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: more RQLite Message-ID:Date: 26 Aug 93 18:12:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1470 Greg Fried here. Thanks for the thoughts on RQLite (who thought that name up, anyhoo?) people. Donald and David: As far as I can tell from your descriptions, Pendragon rules fail the convertability test. Convertability is a Sine Qua Non of RQLite!!!! No one is going to go ahead with a project that renders obsolete all previously published and still in print game materials! If there is going to be a RQLite, it MUST dovetail with the publications now coming out. ANything else is a pipe dream. (By 'no one' I mean any game publisher with an interest in financial responsibility. Which leads me to:...) Simon: yes, there is a danger that if good RQLite rules are developed and published by folks like us (ie, across the net, not for profit), we might undermine the game. For this reason, we should strive for convertability, not for a system that would replace published RQ. I have been thinking hard about rules for RQLite. If anyone wants Roderick's RQWargame rules, email me privately, and I'll send them to you. When and if I think my RQLite rules are provisionally viable, I will post them here. FOr the moment, let me say a few things as to what I am considering. RQLite rules will impact almost entirely on combat, making it quicker and easier to learn, since I think this is where the game stumbles for new players. There should be as few roles as possible, with as little calculating and recalculating of variable values as possible too. D&D is the most successful (ducking eggs!) here: only To Hit, AC, HP and damage are needed, and these rarely vary much once calculated. I wouldn't go this far, though, especially given my conversion constraint. Here's what I'm thinking about: An Attack vs. a Defend roll, followed by a Damage vs. a Resiliance roll, if the attack is in some way successful. These rolls would amalgamate a number of RQ combat factors (cf Rod's rules, though I would do it different). Thr problem is: how to figure the amalgamation! More when I think it thru. It is indeed distressing that Sun County has been selling as badly as Daughters of Darkness, since SC is a very good product. SO what is wrong? It might simply be a question of price: the recent scenario packs are expensive. Though worth the price to die-hards like me, it is perhaps prohibative to prospective converts. Also, many gamers expect modules packed with maps of castles and dungeons and descriptions of rooms filled with monsters and treasure. Though this is not what we should aim for, we should also realize that the recent RQ modules LOOK more like book-length encyclopaedia articles than game aids. I can well imagine a prospective RQer looking thru one and thinking, "Sheesh! I can't handle this! What's going on here?" Perhpas the problem is that product like Dorastor try to combine broad historical and other background with specific campaign scenarios. The two should be separated. I think new RQers are much more likely to buy Apple Land and Snakepipe Hollow than Dorastor (and if they get Dorastor, they will be overwhelmed). So again, more INEXPENSIVE modules so that a GM can play a fun adventure right away, but backed up with rich Gloranthan background supplements. Understand this is purely a marketing strategy, and constitutes no criticism of the HIGH quality of products such as Dorastor. GF out. --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) Subject: RQ Lite Meta-thoughts Message-ID: <9308270002.AA14419@radiomail.net> Date: 27 Aug 93 00:01:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1471 Here's my current thoughts on RQ-Lite: We need a new version of RuneQuest because the current one is too complex for beginners. Therefore, the new version should be as small as possible. The new version should concentrate on what makes RuneQuest cool. To a large extent, that's the world of Glorantha. Specifically, it's Dragon Pass, as the crossroads of Glorantha (hey, that could even be the title!). And as I remember first seeing RQ, it's also a skill system, universal low-power magic, and realistic results (e.g. crippled limbs). There should be almost no optional rules in RQ-Lite. Even if they're clearly marked as optional, if you're trying to read and learn the game, you have to read them. All the cool combat tactics of RQ4 should be in a separate rules supplement. I believe most of shamanism and all of sorcery should be, too. RQ should focus on Dragon Pass, and any rules not needed to run a reasonable game there should NOT be in the basic set. So instead of trying to figure out what to cut from RQ, how about trying to figure out what to _defer_ from RQ? Strike Ranks are an example. Basic RQ could say that all first blows are considered simultaneous within a round. There could be a sentence, "GMs who dislike simultaneous blows can resolve the attack with the highest DEX first, or use the Strike Rank system from RQ Companion. To use the SR numbers from published scenarios, resolve the lowest combatant first." Damage to hit locations could be another. We could use something like Pendragon's Major Wound (half your HP), and in Basic RQ, use the hit location table only if there's a major wound, to determine where the wound occurred. RQ Companion would have the full rules for how many HP a location could take, etc. Even if you don't like my specific examples, is a binary split a good thing? Is the idea of _no_ rules for many of the complex things too crippling (e.g. I propose no rules for sorcery, because nobody from Dragon Pass learns it -- the GM can get a paragraph on how to improvise sorcery if he doesn't have RQ Companion)? --------------------- From: kenrolston@aol.com Subject: Rolston amends the minutes. Message-ID: <9308262219.tn32479@aol.com> Date: 27 Aug 93 02:19:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1472 KEN ROLSTON AMENDS THE MINUTES FOR GENCON REPORTS >>Bad news: Sun County sold no better than Daughters of Darkness. AH has agreed >>to at least keep everything which they have already signed for on schedule, but >>anything else is completely unsubstantiable and up in the air. Sun County sold over nine months about 40% better than Daughters of Darkness, and in the long run will probably sell much better than DoD -- but that is still less than a stirring endorsement of the virtue of quality in increasing sales, and a considerable disappointment to AH, who depend on quality producing vast increases in sales to make the line profitable. Strangers in Prax and Cults of Dorastor (tentatively renamed Lords of Terror) remain on the AH publishing schedule, but publishing dates are indefinite. Other projects remain Juicy Gossip. >>RQIV is off the schedule. There are currently no plans to produce it as such. >>However, a certain ill-tempered little bird (who does a GREAT Skaven >>impersonation) has said that there might be an attempt to sell Avalon Hill on a >>"RuneQuest Glorantha". RQIV is indeed off the schedule for Spring 94. There are several proposals under discussion for alternative formats to publish RQIV material. One is a RuneQuest rules Companion, which would offer one or two RuneQuest Lite variants, and a compendium of the consensus-approved elements of the RQIV project. Another proposal is to publish a fat perfectbound supplement with the working title of RuneQuest Glorantha which presents the RuneQuest rules as needed for Glorantha (and explicitly does not support Fantasy Earth or Gateway). This supplement would be all-singing, all-dancing Glorantha, and would (probably) incorporate the essential elements of the RQIV project. Both proposals have merit. Neither project is on the schedule yet, and reports on both must be regarded as Juicy Gossip until they make it to the schedule. MARK WALLACE AND RACHEL SCHMUTTER SHOWCASE RQ SCENARIO ART I ran my Gencon game sessions next door (actually, next curtain) to Wallace and Schmutter running their scenarios. I was amiably ashamed of the ancient traditional flavor of my scenario, and envious of their roleplaying/dramatic presentation. Sigh. I shall take it as inspiration. RUNEQUEST LITE I am a strong supporter of RuneQuest Lite strategies. Our local group runs a rough drafted RQ Lite, and I have proposed another RQ Lite strategy (which I do not think as good as our current house rules). I do not propose it as the key to a marketing strategy; it may may well be sound as such, but I favor it because simple systems and fast-paced combats are to my taste. However, I DO like combat systems that lend themselves to tactical maneuver on the tabletop, and must recognize that, since RQII and RQIII were both dramatically deficient in this regard, I am to some extent interested in adding some level of detail or articulation to the combat rules. Our house rules work well enough in casual play, but I fear working up a rigorous rules set for these house rules might be an ugly project. If I get the time [Hah!] I'll try to get a draft for distribution. Ken Rolston