From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 10 Sep 1993, part 1 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: henkl@holland.sun.com (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: Lots and Lots of Stuff Message-ID: <1993Sep9.071033.4042@holland.sun.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1993 07:10:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1597 Tom.Zunder@mettav.royle.org (Tom Zunder) writes: >Moons >I like the idea that Yelm was White in Gods Time, and was sundered into three >by Death. The Sun is the Yellow part, also Yelmalio, Annila is the Blue part >and the Red Moon is the last. Where the Red Moon was hiding we don't know but I >would guess it was blasted into a chaos hell from where the Red Goddess >retrieved it. Lunar mythology implies that the Red Goddess existed since Time >but the Seven Mothers refound her, maybe the Red Moon actually is the Red >Goddess, the female aspect is an >accident. >Thus the return of the White is the rebirth of the full Yelm Emperor. How I like this! Makes a lot more sense than that white moon stuff... -- Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun. oK[] | RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM --------------------- From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Subject: Re: Shamans Message-ID: <9309090712.AA20338@cs.uwa.edu.au> Date: 9 Sep 93 07:16:59 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1598 > From: henkl@holland.sun.com (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) > stormbull@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake) writes: > > > >I have been looking at the rules for Shamans, both in RQII and III and > >have a question, Can you have a Shaman who is also a Rune Lord and/or > >Priest? The rules do not say either way. > I see the real problem as not being to do with deeper incompatibilities between the different types of magical powers, I see it as more of a problem of practicalities. There is no reason why shamans cannot become priests, many shamans are also priests (probably the majority of RQ3 shamans, between Hsunchen cults, Waha. ancestor worship, Troll priestesses, elven shamans, and thats not even counting minor spirit cults) (RQ2 purists consider Black Fang and a few others). However many cults specifically disallow shamans (perhaps feeling they are tooinvolved with the spirit world (heresy?) to make good priests), and probably from Rune Lord status as well. If your cult allows it, there is no reason not too - but don't expect your shamanto become a Light Son or other uptight civilised cult Rune level. > > >The real problem is with Rune magic, if shamans cannot attain "Rune" > >level then their access to such magic is limited. I can understand that > >some cults would have a more shamnic tradition rather than a priestly > >one (such as Daka Fal) and that some cults dont even have Priests > >(StormBull according to RQIII). Does anyone have any suggestions? In many cults the two positions of priest and shaman are compatible or the same. In others they are separate, or one or the other does not exist. It is a purely cult by cult decision. I must point out that this comes from a largely RQ3 perspective, not so much because I play it exclusively (I do, but I played RQ2 before hand), but because I never quite knew what to make of RQ2 shamans. They are mentioned in only a very few places, and their cult status is not mentioned except in a few places. We do know that in cults that permit it, it is possible to combine priest-hood and shamanhood (such as Black Fang). > > >Tim > > Shamans (shamen?) deliberately choose a different path. Rune magic is > not for them, as it is too wrapped up in formalised and pompous ritual. > It is also too limiting and would impose on their freedom of action. Rubbish. Rune magic is one of the most important abilities of most Gloranthan shamans (as I said above). Big organised cults, that are wrapped up in pompous formalised ritual, are anathema to shamans ( and the feeling is mutual) but a little Rune magic, derived from the traditional ways of the people or whatever, is part of the whole shaman thing. > > Shamans are individuals. They are masters of the spirit world, and > won't let themselves be controlled by the gods, which are abberant > spirits anyway. They will, however, let themselves be pushed around by the tribal ancestors, or the spirits of the land or whatever. But that is quite different (they say) :-) > There are exceptions of course, like the spirit cults. Those people > chosing this route give up some of their freedom in turn for temporary > benefits, like a Rune spell or two. I think of it more as devoting extra effort to get some extra powers. I don't think that freedom is really the issue, freedom is a different concept when you put the welfare of the tribe above your own welfare (as I feel most shamans do). > -- > Henk | Henk.Langeveld@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun. > oK[] | RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM > Dave Cake > Re: a mailing list for just Glorantha stuff > I already run several mailing lists and have good software support for such > a beast. > > So, would anyone subscribe to it? :-) I might subscribe, but I wouldn't post (except in reply, maybe). I see very little reason to split the discussion, and I feel that it would not be a good thing. The big rules discussions only come along every once in a while. And I don't think that discussion of the rules can be separated from GLorantha (look at the discussion of shamans above for an example). Dave Cake > -- > Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com > Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems > Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Quel Stream strung on gut > string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant. > --------------------- From: henkl@glorantha (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 1 [duplicate again] Message-ID: <9309090725.AA04726@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Date: 9 Sep 93 11:25:35 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1599 It happened again. I will include some checks. > From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) > To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) > Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 09 Sep 1993, part 1 > Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) > Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM > Precedence: junk > > X-RQ-ID: 1595 > --------------------- From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel) Subject: Of FAQs and FTP Message-ID: <9309090741.AA07500@erzo.berkeley.edu> Date: 8 Sep 93 17:41:47 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1600 >From: DScott@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott) ... >Finally, what do readers think about the idea of an FAQ for the digest. I dont >know how it would work - but perhaps it could be available from soda.berkley by >FTP or perhaps if you could send a message to request-Digest with FAQ in the >header?. I realize that not everyone has access to USENET or FTP so could it >all be done by mail? If I remember correctly you can get files by mail from >soda (cant remember how though). I think that a FAQ is a good idea. I try and maintain most of the information that you mention on soda, but having short bits on each of them in one easy to get place would probably be useful. You just need to get someone willing to put it together and maintain it. Once a FAQ is complete, it could regularly be posted to rec.games.frp.archives as well, to provide people who don't read the RQ Digest with all the info on RuneQuest. >For instance, a few? digests ago JagWire X >asked about other RQ sources - does anyone know of any - even old ones other >than soda? soda is meant to be the main RQ FTP site. I don't know of any sources that include anything that it doesn't. If anyone _is_ aware of anything, please let me know. I'd be happy to add the appropriate files to soda. Shannon --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: ... No one ever dies there ... Message-ID:Date: 9 Sep 93 08:42:46 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1601 Greg Fried here. Wow. What a pant-load of Dailies there was today! Thanks everyone (Charles, David, Rob, Lewis, et al) for your helpful responses on the Prax tribes. Yes, I suppose I should have extrapolated a bit from their designation as NOMADS (!!) -- but just how nomadic and within what range was my question, for which I have some admirable answers. After all, Native American plains-dwellers had large tribal regions which were dominated by one tribe alone. My sense after reading your responses is that, at least after the Lunar victory, certain favored tribes do tend to PREDOMINATE in the better areas, and that others, like the Bisons, must pound the pavement out in the Wates more'n they'd like to, but that tribal clans do tend to range all over the region, interspersing with other tribes. Lewis, I particularly liked your thoughts on the Rhino riders. What are their non-Praxian habits? --- On Arkat: OK. I relent. There should be no way for Arkati to 'detect' a difference between themselves and other Illuminates. Otherwise it spoils all the fun! Where would Nysalor/Gbaji/Arkat get his jollies without the constant lurking possibility of soul-wrenching treason?! --- Tim Westlake: Sorry to insult you Brits with that "uncharted European market" crack. All I meant was that (outside from the UK, really), there is indeed a largely unassaulted market, which AH seems to have no strategy for conquering. BUt I think you agree on this point! --- David Scott: This may be a cultural thing (other Yanks, back me up), but I do believe that "Hungry Jack" is a brand name for a brand of American pancake mix! A typical Staffordian, multivalent, pop-cult in-joke, no? And so maybe it had to change to Hungry Eater because of copyright issues! (REALLY?! Ken -- enquiring minds want to know!) --- Simon: I think that the spirit plane is one of the great gaps in the RQ game-world. I dislike the RQ3 spirits, because they seem designed to fit a game-SYSTEM, not a mythological system. Shamans would be much more interesting if the spirit plane received some real thought. Since I have a player who infrequently plays a shaman-ess (?) named Piggy-O, I have given this some thought, but not enough. When traveling discorporate, she can see the spirit-shadows of the real world, including rock, water, etc. But how FAR can she travel, and for how long? I do not allow spirits regenerable POW -- they must get it by worship or shamanic bargaining or by theft from the living. Shamans can keep only so many bound spirits as they can successfully bargain with for a POW-deal (I replenish you, you help me with spells). Fancy that -- role-playing! Who'd 'a' thunk it? No one, under the current rules, cause all you do is enslave spirits and use them to powergame under the current game-mechanics. (Allied spirits might be an exeption to the replenishment rule -- the deity might do the replenishing here. But none of my players have attained rune status, so I haven't tested this.) I also make spirits more 'materially' interesting when associated with a shaman or other living being. If you bind a fish spirit, you're gonna be fishier: bonuses on swim skills, but maybe a tad smelly -- I dunno -- the fun is in the doing! This sort of stuff really spices up my paleolithic campaign, and makes shamans into the odd-balls they should be. For example, an NPC tribal shaman in my campaign has bound a sea-gull spirit; he is incredibly good with Fast Talk, but he is obnoxiously garrulous, and a gaggle of gulls follows him everywhere. Piggy-O has bound a boar spirit: she is TOUGH, but damn pig-headed. How's this help? Oh, and did I mention? I HATE (well, snore at) the present spirit combat system! Shouldn't spirit combat involve as many interesting options as real combat?! This smacks of the we-never-really-thought-it-through syndrome. As it stands, all we have is the POW RES table. Yawn. I have made some changes, like, a discorporate shaman can cast a spell at victim he has engaged in spirit combat at a considerable advantage in a round that he has won the spirit combat role (mind-affecting spells only... maybe...). Also, in spirit combat, I use the RQ2 rules for POW damage: 1-10 = 3 POW taken, 11- 40 = 2, and 41- 00 = 1, BUT, the attacker SUBR --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Brief notes Message-ID: <930909085028_100270.337_BHB38-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 9 Sep 93 08:50:29 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1602 __________ Thom said: > For a truly non-ancestor cult try Humakt (he does after all represent > the severance of family ties ...) I also think of Humakt as the god of divorce and suicide. > Speaking of Dragon Pass, does anyone play it regularly? I used to. I would again, given a worthy opponent. Chris Gidlow was too easy to beat, by the end, though he did a great Harrek bear-roar. I still remember his war-cry: "Who's for a gang-bang with a Lunar Saint?" That was the game when I diverted Jar-eel and the Moon Sword Cult to slice up poor Tosti Runefriend ("He's got a big fetish"), the well-known Viz character. When I was playing Argrath, we managed to unfold the Cloak of Darkness atop the Temple of the Reaching Moon on the Full Moon Day -- the most impressive Lunar power-cut I can imagine! I know David Hall's never played the game -- must challenge him some time. He can even have the Lunars! We didn't take quite so long as you to play, but that was after gaining a lot of familiarity with the rules. Now, Nomad Gods I've only played once, and would *love* to play again... ___________ Simon says: > ... this presents a far more interesting landsacpe than the dreamy grey > blur that the Gloranthan spirit world is portrayed as. Yup. The 'official' RuneQuest Spirit Plane is just plain DULL. And shamans aren't able to do many of the real-world shamanic things ("because they're HeroQuests"?). These ideas look like improvements to me. ____________________ *Another* RQ list??? >> is Clay Luther > is Steven E Barnes >>I've been thinking about creating a mailing list dedicated *SOLELY* to >>Gloranthan lore; rules questions and complaints about the magic systems >>would be taboo. It would be more like a place where people would be >>encouraged to spout God-Learner philosophy and to publish Gloranthan >>short stories and remark endless on the connection between Nysalor/ >>Gbaji/Arkat/Ralzakark. >Please don't bother. Are rules discussions that much of a >problem for you? >>So, would anyone subscribe to it? :-) > Yes, because I wouldn't want to be left out of the Glorantha > discussions. But I would prefer just one list, thank you. Seconded: I'd subscribe, but I wouldn't write for it. This list is good enough for me. > And there are Glorantha fans that aren't too keen on RQ anymore... Seconded. ____________________ Steve Thomas writes: (Eventually...) (Haven't got the hang of that mail software yet, have you, Steve?) > Not that there's anything wrong with powergaming per se Are you sure you're not confusing power games with dominance games? ;-) Anyway, you're in trouble when I catch up with you, even if you are a Sword of Indrodar while I'm just a humble cow-man (OK, the Sacred Milkman of the Greydogs, but you know what I mean). No pints of Gold Top for you... ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: more on spiritland Message-ID: Date: 9 Sep 93 09:01:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1603 GF here, again, after cutting myself off again! As I was saying, I use that system for damage, except that the winner SUBTRACTS the ammount he won the POW RES by from the d100 damage roll. If this goes below 01, he rolls d100 again for additional damage, subtracting however much he went below 01 on the first roll, etc, until a roll above 01 is made. This makes spirit combat faster, at least. One question to ask is, where does the POW 'go' that gets knocked off your spirit in spirit combat? I suppose it just dissipates into the spirit plane. But could a shaman 'collect' it before it melts away, using it to cast a spell on victim in spirit combat, or to replenish a bound spirit? THis is what I mean by what would make such combat more interesting. --- Nick: Fair enough. A Wheel's worth of brew (not broos!) coming atcha at RQCon -- if I make it. What are the current exchange rates? I am just a lowly grad student, after all. And, since you ask so politely, I'll work on my heretical Blue Moon write up, and post it -- to be credited against your wheel. --- Hey, Is the Pharoh a God-Learner on the lam? He just crawled out of the sea. Where from, do you suppose? And who but a G-L would devise such a ritual as in Masters of Luck and Death to keep himself immortal? I tell you, inquiring minds want to know!!! And why did he disappear? Have I not read enough? GF out. --------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance) Subject: Re: Some Glorantha questions: Message-ID: <01H2QEPBNDS2000MG4@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 8 Sep 93 22:30:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1604 C442196@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes) asked (X-RQ-ID: 1593) >1. The subject of Vinga brings to mind Babeestor Gor and > Gorgorma - What is the defining difference between those 2 > anyway? (The cult write-up of Babeestor Gor at the soda site > seemed to endow her with attributes more appropriate to > Gorgorma.) Babeester Gor is the shadow of Voria, whereas Gorgorma is the shadow of Dendara. Certainly the net.writeup of Bab's cult does tend far more towards the castrator-for-its-own-sake (and other peculiarities) than I find reasonable > My own uninformed opinion had been that there is no search- > light effect, the moon appears the same to everyone outside > the Glowline at the same time. I thought of the Moon as > a piece of Godtime that is not bound by physical laws > about rotation, if that makes any sense. This sounds better to me; especially tied with the magical boundary between visibility/always-full or not, which is bound by no reasonable optical laws