From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 11 Sep 1993, part 1
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Precedence: junk
The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of
Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha.
Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM",
they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the
Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying.
Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at
RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM.
Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail)
Subject: Re: Praxians; spirits; Cradles; optics; TWH
Message-ID: <199309100659.AA15047@radiomail.net>
Date: 10 Sep 93 06:59:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1619
>From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
>After all, Native American plains-dwellers had large tribal regions
>which were dominated by one tribe alone.
True, but in some senses one could consider all Praxians to be one tribe
(anthropologically speaking). They all speak the same language, after all.
Though there may be value in treating the tribes as completely distinct.
Maybe they _do_ have different languages (not that I want to _game_
that)...
>I also make spirits more 'materially' interesting when
>associated with a shaman or other living being. If you bind a fish
>spirit, you're gonna be fishier: bonuses on swim skills, but maybe a
>tad smelly -- I dunno -- the fun is in the doing! This sort of stuff
>really spices up my paleolithic campaign, and makes shamans into the
>odd-balls they should be. For example, an NPC tribal shaman in my
>campaign has bound a sea-gull spirit; he is incredibly good with Fast
>Talk, but he is obnoxiously garrulous, and a gaggle of gulls follows
>him everywhere. Piggy-O has bound a boar spirit: she is TOUGH, but
>damn pig-headed. How's this help?
I rather like this... PenDragon Pass expanded Passion Spirits to include
spirits that gave you personality traits (I believe one person got posessed
by a Meekness Spirit, and ended up with a Modest of 23), but getting
multiple benefits is a very nice idea. It would work even without
"bribery:" bind a spell spirit and one of the affects is +Knowledge of
spell; another might be +5 Cruel or even -2 Speak Own. (Wonder if I can
apply this retroactively to my campaign without too much squawking?)
>Oh, and did I mention? I HATE (well, snore at) the present spirit
>combat system! Shouldn't spirit combat involve as many interesting
>options as real combat?!
No, because it's something most people don't do very often. Everyone
(potentially) is involved in combat every game session. Spirit combat (in
most games) affects about one person each session.
>From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
>Tosti Runefriend ("He's got a big fetish"), the well-known Viz character.
Well-known? (I did add all the Dragon Pass people to my Big List of
Personalities, but I don't know anything about most of 'em.)
>From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
>I didn't really like the Cradle scenario (from the Pavis pack). It's too
>linear.
>A sequence of (gross) set encounters with little plot. And the ending goes way
>over the top. Wyvern-riding priests; I ask you! This kind of thing gives
>Glorantha a bad name. (IMHO)
Gee, I felt that was the best published scenario I ever played in. It had
an epic feel, that made my character feel she'd participated in something
that mattered to the world. I think it would have been fun had I not known
about Glorantha, tho it wouldn't have been as meaningful.
>From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
> If Yelm is yellow
> Then the "Red Moon" must be magenta
> And the "Blue Moon" must be cyan
> For the sum of the parts to be white.
Given that the bodies emit light, you'd use additive colors, not
subtractive: Red + Green + Blue = White. Red + Green = Yellow. This would
explain why Yelm was taken over so easily by the Moon -- she shares half
his "color."
>From: jjm@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
>Subject: The Wild Hunt
As a semi-regular contributor, I'd be happy to inform.
TWH is an offset (or xeroxed) APA, distributed about once/month. Run by
Mark Swanson, 40 Bow St, Arlington, MA 02174. "Cost is $3 plus large and
varying postage. (Book rate is cheaptest: $1.05)." Send Mark money for an
account.
The latest issue includes a serialized novel; excellent information on a
"lizard man" culture (with illos); my zine with info and a campaign writeup
of the PenDragon Pass campaign; essays on roleplaying; comments on previous
issues; a Pavis scenario sketch; reviews; background to a SF campaign, and
more.
---------------------
From: COR_HVH@KUNRC1.URC.KUN.NL
Subject: the glowline
Message-ID: <01H2S2IUCJGG9856D2@KUNRC1.URC.KUN.NL>
Date: 10 Sep 93 09:02:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1620
Hi guys, another listener finally speaking up. And no, Henk is not the only
Runequester in the Netherlands.
While we're on the subject of the glowline...
Although the AH supplements try to give as little info as possible about the
glowline I understand from discussions here that its course is determined by
the presence of temples (of the Reaching Moon?). How exactly?
I see two logical options:
1) the glowline is the smallest curve enveloping all such temples
In this case the Lunar Empire's strategy ought to show a preference for
outflanking enemy strongpoints and bringing them within the glowline
before attacking. Furthermore, it would be possible to bring most of
Genertela into the glowline with just a few outlying temples (now how do
we get our missionaries into Pamaltela and Vormain?).
2) a circular glowline is projected by each temple, its radius dependent on
the size of the temple, and "the" glowline is formed because all such
areas overlap
This explanation is supported by the map in the Dragon Pass boardgame.
The Empire itself must be saturated with temples and shrines. On the
frontier, outflanking is still possible, but now you need at least a major
temple to get a useful effect. And, to return to the original subject,
the Red Moon's is made visible through the link to the nearby temple (or,
for non-believers, the red thing suddenly appearing in our skies is a
giant illusion projected by that ugly invader temple).
Hans van Halteren hvh@lett.kun.nl
He probably can't swim! I'll jump after him to save him! ... By the way,
how easy is swimming if you're wearing armour?
---------------------
From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: tradetalk, etc
Message-ID:
Date: 10 Sep 93 09:12:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1621
Greg Fried here.
Issaries and Tradetalk:
In KoS, when Orlanth meets Issaries on his Quest, Issaries "was seeking the
Light of Communication, which he felt could heal the wounded world." (82)
That seems like a reasonable pre-God Learner purpose for this god (not unlike
Chalana Arroy's...). Issaries' 'esperonto' (nice dig!) could well have been
perverted by the GLs for their own purposes, but I suspect that this language
did originate with his noble Godtime goals. And I agree that while the GLs
might have warped the cult to their own purposes, when they met with their
demise, my guess is that the cult would revert largely (though not entirely)
to natural place in divine balance of powers. But "not entirely" leaves a
lot of room for interpretation. For example, was the Issaries cult even a
mercantile cult BEFORE the GL's maratime artifact-swapping empire? I could
well imagine the cult as one of diplomatic,cosmic social workers: "C'mon --
Yelm.... Orlanth... What you two really got to do is COMMUNICATE.... Tell
each other how you FEEL about being cut down from the Sky, how you FEEL about
not being given a realm of your own...." Hm... SO maybe the GL really DID
pervert the cult into the money-grubbers we know today. After all, I recall
no mention of Issaries as a merchant in the Lightbringers Saga (although he
does some savvy negotiating...[85-6]). But really I think this is going too
far.
---
God Learners, Illumination, Chaos, RuneSight:
While I am really not learned enough to speculate on such topics, I would
want to ask more questions to get a better sense of what might be the
interrelation of these things. The real Q for me is, what is about what both
GLs and Illuminates learn about the cosmos/Glorantha that makes them so
(notoriously) extraordinary? The starting point is that both garner an
insight that allows them to *see* the cosmos in a radically new way. The
Illuminates gain this insight mystically; the GLs gain it (I am supposing)
rationally, if not even mechanically. (This might lend support to Henk's
notion that the GL secret was a way to get Illuminated on the spot. [Lunars
get on the Glow-spot! ....Sorry!]) But all this presumes that, apart from
the method of attaining it, the actual insight for both is the same, or at
least very similar. But is it?
What I gather, on the most general level, is that something happens to both
GLs and Ills that, for them, Glorantha has in a certain profound manner,
ceased to matter. They are able to radically detach themselves from the body
and soul of the gods, history and places of the finite cosmos. Glorantha's
meaningfulness is just a blip-bubble in the vast void of Chaos. BUt here
they diverge. The GLs amoral solipsism allows them the freedom to exploit,
manipulate and plunder the meaningfulness inherent in Glorantha myths -- they
are like the strip-miners and other such ransackers of nature in our world,
using science and technolgy to get the most power out of nature as fast as
possible, without respect. Except in Glorantha, nature is composed of myths!
RuneSight, then, would be like our nuclear physics. It is a way to exploit
the meaningfulness of Glorantha at its most elementary level. (But just like
nuclear physics, the runes are imposed on nature as an interpretative tool --
the runes of RuneQuest are NOT inherent to Glorantha's original nature!) I
would say that, like the Illuminates, the GLs do not emotionally hate Chaos,
but they would FEAR it for what they know it can do to their own precious
little solipsistic selves. Maybe they would use it like the Red Goddess does
-- but they would feel about it like we do about plutonium. So I
imagine the GL empire as run by a cartel of nuclear scientists,
alternately wowing and bribing, and terrorizing and dominating their
subjects with their powers and outlanding inventions.
Illuminates do what GLs do, but without the rationalist
myth-technology they have. Instead of manipulating myths on the hero
and god plane, they join cults, gather powers, and move on. (But: Arkat?)
They don't care, because they no longer 'belong' to Glorantha, and so they
are immune to cult spirits of retribution. Such a consciousness is
unimaginable to the average person, rooted in their time and place and
cult. The Illuminated equivalent to RuneSight is the InsideOutSight
that tells them that Law and Chaos are not moral categories, that
the meaningfulness of Glorantha is meaningless (an
insight that results in madness for many), and that they may now
choose how to proceed as entities caught in this blip-bubble with
utter freedom. But this freedom is also the freedom to choose to live
the life you are born with, like Oddi, the Uroxi in CoT who gets
Illuminated by Tricksters. For this, I'd say Illuminates are a touch
better than God Learners -- potentially.
In a sense the Lunars COMBINE the GLs and the Illuminates. True, they
don't have the weirdo, Buckaroo Bonzai contraptions of the GLs. BUt
they have the Bat! They are more sophisticated than the GLs in that
the Red Goddess left the cosmos, but then lived her way back into its
fabric; the GLs are consummate outsiders. The Lunars also digest and
absorb other cults, but they do it in a far more organic way than the
GLs. Maybe it's most nearly correct to say that in the Lunar world,
only the Red Goddess and the Red Emperor are truly like the GLs -- everyone
else just gets carried along for the ride. Poor fools. Like a wise
person once said: Chaotic Power? No Thank You!
Forgive me for this ranting philosophic ramble! It just spilled out!
Now, what I really want to know about is draconic consciousness, and
why it's safe (from Glorantha's perspective!) in dragons' minds, but
not in humans....!
GF out.
---------------------
From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: RE: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 10 Sep 1993, part 3
Message-ID: <9309100915.AA28004@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Sep 93 09:14:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1622
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Paul Reilly
>>2. Considering that Glorantha is flat, how far can someone see
>> on the ocean?
>> Thus there is in fact a horizon on Glorantha, which gets farther away
>>as you go up. Mountains and such do provide good vantage points.
>>For a standing man, the horizon will be about five kilometers away. I'm
>>not sure how far one can see from a 12 kilometer height (The Vent), but I could
>>work out the Earth answer if you like. No guarantee that this will apply on
>>Glorantha, although it's certainly a great distance. According to
A rough rule of thumb, useful on Earth:
take height in feet, multiply by 1.5, then take the square root.
answer = approx distance in miles that can be seen.
What about the atmospheric effects? On a flat world, that is going to
be the big visual limiting factor (cunning explanations about the
nature of light apart!).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
David Cheng.
>THE TEKUMEL CONNECTION
>It is rumoured that Dave Morris, editor of _The Eye of All-seeing
>Wonder_ (a fanzine much like our beloved _Tales_), will try to make
>the trip from England. Also, Professor M.A.R. Barker is warming to
Does anyone have the UK address for this fanzine?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Buckley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden)
Subject: Splitting lists and things
Message-ID:
Date: 10 Sep 93 13:36:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1623
I know I suggested a split a couple of months back, and I did so because
everyone was jumping over each other because of differences as to what should
go in the Digest. I accepted that a split was a bad idea then, I accept that
now.
However, the problem seems to run like this: Every now and then, the rules
in the Digest outweigh the Gloranthan questions. Someone writes in saying
something like "why are we discussing these boring rules!?". Someone writes
back saying "Why not?!". A minor war starts. Someone suggests we split the
Digest. It KEEPS happening. It has a very simple solution: Accept that Henk
is not being a Trickster when he claims the Digest is for RQ and Glorantha,
don't insult the "other side", and live in peace. Please folks, I play RQ for
the rules, not Glorantha. I have no problem with reading Gloranthan lore in
the Digest - By now I even know a fair bit about the Digest, and a lot of the
discussion (eg. the bits on Spirit magic) bears relevance to real world
topics (or Alternate Earth ones). But when someone posts something saying
that any group's opinions on the Digest bore them and thus should be
discontinued, I am insulted.
Peace,
Peter
*******************************************************************************
Peter van Heusden One man one newsfeed
CS3, UCT, Cape Town, RSA "but I love the setting. and the hippies
pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za will be back in the fall" Red_Guest on MediaMOO
---------------------
From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Exorcism
Message-ID: <9309101123.AA11227@condor>
Date: 10 Sep 93 11:23:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1625
This is a question that's bothered me for a while: What can a Priest do
about possession? Say, he is covertly possessed by a spirit; can the Priest
do *anything* about it? It seems (in RQIII rules) only shamans can perform
exorcisms. Does the Priest have to crawl to the nearest tame shaman?
The same question goes for sorcerors too. I can't imagine sorcerors
consorting with shamans (or vice versa), but I guess they'd have to if they
got possessed.
I'd like to hear how other people have dealt with this. Thoughts?
CW.
---------------------
From: drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: RuneQuest-Con Registration
Message-ID:
Date: 10 Sep 93 13:53:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1626
Something I forgot earlier about registering for RQ-Con, and Home of the
Bold in particular:
Most people who have sent in registrations so far have wanted to be in
HotB. They have checked the HotB box, but have not listed any alternate
choices for the Saturday gaming slots.
This is OK, as they're the early birds, all guaranteed worms. But, very
soon, the HotB slots will run out, and I'll need you to list some 2nd and
3rd choices for tournaments you'll want to get into instead.
I apologize for not designing the form to better reflect this. Mea culpa.
-DC
---------------------
From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: Spirit Combat
Message-ID: <9309101407.AA27958@MIT.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 93 05:07:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1627
I also use the RQ II rules for spirit combat.
Rich
---------------------
From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: How far out to sea can one see!
Message-ID: <9309101413.AA28171@MIT.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 93 05:13:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1628
(Just try to say *that* three times fast!) :-)
The world is lozenge shaped I thought, i.e. bulges out at the center.
That way, you have the same effect you do on a spherical world.
Rich
---------------------
From: staats@MIT.EDU (Richard C. Staats)
Subject: Simon Basham's Ideas
Message-ID: <9309101417.AA28327@MIT.EDU>
Date: 10 Sep 93 05:16:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1629
Excellent ideas!
How many folks out there subscribe to "The Gamer" magazine?
It is an excellent publication that might very well be willing to
publish a well written review of RQ. (This is speculation, but it seems
to follow from the other reviews I've read in "The Gamer.")
In service,
Rich
---------------------
From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance)
Subject: "uncharted European market"
Message-ID: <01H2RI7IBC36000S2A@UG.EDS.COM>
Date: 9 Sep 93 17:21:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1630
Greg Fried suggested
"All I meant was that (outside from the UK, really), there is
indeed a largely unassaulted market, which AH seems to have no
strategy for conquering. BUt I think you agree on this point!"
Information from _Tales_ (and elsewhere) seems to suggest that
more copies of RQ are sold in French or German editions than in
the entire Anglophone world. The European market is not so much
uncharted, as going its own way as best it can, and doing
*better* for not having the local-language competition.
---------------------
From: pete@slough.mit.edu (Pete c/o Tom Yates)
Subject: The Wild Hunt
Message-ID: <9309102247.AA12344@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Sep 93 22:50:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1631
johnjmedway wrote:
> I was looking through an old mail file and ran across a reference to a
> publication called "The Wild Hunt".
>
> Would some kind soul fill me/us in on this?
Sure. The Wild Hunt is an APA, an Amateur Press Association.
It contains separate zines from a number of contributors, who write
whatever they want to -- anyone can contribute. One of the more popular
game systems to discuss in TWH is RuneQuest -- many of the contributors
are long-time RQ players. Greg Stafford used to contribute many years
ago, and a bunch of back issues of TWH that include his zines will be
on sale at the RQ Con, I believe. Other RQ luminaries have contributed
in the past, too. TWH is listed as a source in RuneQuest II, though I
think the editor's address has changed since then.
Let's see, what else...
TWH is one of the oldest gaming APAs around -- between 15 and
18 years old, I think.
Several of David Dunham's fine Pendragon Pass writeups have been
in TWH.
An extremely wide range of topics are discussed. Talk ranges
from the philosophical to some outstanding original game material to
original game-related comics.
TWH is photocopied, and the individual zines are generally DTPed.
The quality is generally pretty good, more readable than mimeograph.
If you want more information, you can write to:
Mark Swanson (editor)
40 Bow St.
Arlington, MA 02174
Or email me, if you like. Purely by coincidence, the next
issue of TWH (#183) is being collated this Sunday.
Oh, it generally comes out about ten times a year.
-->Pete
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci Malden, Massachusetts
pete@slough.mit.edu or rune@trystero.com or rune@ace.com
"Hey! Your Tien fell in my Atyar!" "Well, your Atyar got in my Tien!"
Thanatar -- two great Chaos Gods that go great together!
---------------------
From: mmlab!cookec%max@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki)
Subject: A newbie's perspective
Message-ID: <9309102256.AA16205@relay1.UU.NET>
Date: 10 Sep 93 22:52:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 1632
*** Disclaimer ***
This is my first attempt at posting to this digest, so if I
screw it while I'm figureing it out. - bear with me OK?
With all this talk of RQlite I thought you might be interested in a newbie's
perspective on starting a Runequest campaign. I just GM'd my first session
wednesday night. I spent more time then I would have liked rolling up
characters BUT it served the purpose of teaching my players the BASICS of the
game mechanics and where these new numbers came from.
For me, the most daunting aspect to getting started is the HUGE amount of
information available. My solution was to just keep it simple. Both the
players and the GM (me) would be exploring the details together. This would
be a novice game at low myth. The basic references recomended by David Cheng
were a good start.
The main resistance from my new players was convincing them this was as much
fun as AD*D for fantasy roleplaying. The difference being the mechanics(how
combat/magic/etc works). I used(am using) the Greenbrass quest as a lead-in
with a couple simple encounters of my own to let them get a feel for it.
Being an ex-DM of more years them I'll admit, I was worried as to how they'd
take to RQ's differences. Conclusion ? Style of play - not what rules you
use. I've always had success as a gamesmaster be it AD*D, EPT, Gamma World,
or Metamorphasis Alpha. That same STYLE caught and kept them interested.
At least enough to want to continue next week. Beyond that? Time will tell...
Many thanks to David Cheng, Jim Rogers, The Labyrinth in Baltimore, MD (for
letting us use a room and special ordering my RQ materials) and most of all,
this digest and all of you. This is shapeing up nicely. If there is enough
interest I'll continue to post my newbie's perspectives and ongoing campaign
developments.
--
| Chris Cooke - cookec@mmlab.UUCP cookec@mml.mmc.com |
| Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug... |