From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Sep 1993, part 1 Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Sender: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Precedence: junk The RuneQuest Daily and RuneQuest Digest deal with the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. Send submissions and followup to "RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM", they will automatically be included in a next issue. Try to change the Subject: line from the default Re: RuneQuest Daily... on replying. Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you want to submit articles to the Digest only, contact the editor at RuneQuest-Digest-Editor@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM. Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld) --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham , via RadioMail) Subject: Philosopher Kings Message-ID: <199309140616.AA25332@radiomail.net> Date: 14 Sep 93 06:15:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1665 So, where in Glorantha would you find Plato's Philosopher Kings? No, not the civilized Lunar Empire. Try barbarian Sartar! How so? If a clan has a Lightbringer council, they have a Lhankor Mhy the Sage position. [King of Sartar p. 253] Presumably this is filled by a Lhankor Mhy initiate if at all possible. However, Lhankor Mhy initiates are considered "eccentric, strange, exotic, or dangerous." [246] Thus, we can assume that they're rare. But at the same time, they're needed for clan (and tribal [256]) councils. Thus, if you're a philosopher (LM initiate), you're probably a power behind the throne (council member). At least if you're in a Lightbringer council clan... This suggests that the road to power is to join a cult like Chalana Arroy or Lhankor Mhy. True, you won't be a leader, but you'll have access to (and participation in) the leadership that chances are you'd never get if you worshipped Orlanth. David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: AH idiocy Message-ID:Date: 14 Sep 93 02:35:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1666 GF here. In the latest issue of RQ Adventures fanzine, John Castellucci writes: "Things look very shaky at Avalon Hill these days. Ken Rolston is no longer Rune Czar. It all came down to $$$, which Monarch Games did not want to invest in the RQ product line. The future is uncertain." Can anyone out there in net-land tell us more about this? Ken, are you there? Pardon my ignorance, but in Monarch Games the parent company of AH, then? Does this mean no more puclications on line for the present? What kind of idiocy is going on over at AH? Wasn't K R only installed as Rune Czar just a few months ago?! And then they cut the ground out from under him?! It boggles the mind. So much for the RQ Renaissance if this all true! Argh! --------------------- From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK Subject: Visions and Praxian Animals Message-ID: <9309140858.AA23245@Sun.COM> Date: 14 Sep 93 09:04:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1667 Ref: 1641 (Paul) It is not just a Greek idea that people shoot beams of Visions (Visual Particles) out of their eyes which bounce back off things. A well know game designer believes this too. In DnD the eyes of a creature using infravision glow in the dark! I assume this is because they are emmitting InfraRed Visions! Ref: 1642 (Charlie Domino) Here are some uses for the bits of beasties that you mentioned: Hooves -- boiled down to make glue Teeth -- Jewelry and posssible starp edges for tools and weapons. I imagine that bison teeth make good scrapers. Bones -- Armour (ref: american indians), tools, weapons, tent pegs and poles and also fuel for fires in winter (bones burns well if you get it hot enough). Tendon -- String to secure tool heads to handles etc. Ligament String Cartalige beats me but I assume that someone can come up with a use for it. When you are reading the above remember that wood is very scare in Prax so that other materials are generally used were we would use it. I suspect that Mold Bone is a fairly common spirit spell in Prax (Ref: that Rhino Rider's Lance in Plunder made from the bones of a giant's leg). Remember only the resourceful survive in the wastes. ----- Lewis ----- --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Sticks and Shamanism Message-ID: <930914091647_100270.337_BHB33-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 14 Sep 93 09:16:48 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1668 ____________________ Greg Fried lamented: > But I guess the preference is for 'Swords and Sorcery', not 'Sticks > and Shamanism', and so we put all our RQ4 effort into the sorcery > system, and not into the spirit world. Ah, well. What a lovely label! Yup, I'm a 'Sticks & Shamanism' fan myself -- one of my favourite RQ adventure settings was Jon Quaife's Ancestor Quest. I keep intending to run BaboonQuest some day... Chroming up the spirit magic rules so we do "real" shamanic stuff (like sucking out thorns to heal disease, casting evil eyes, eating hallucinogenic mushrooms, drumming and dancing and disembowelling, etc.) would be a good step forward. Wouldn't need any rules changes, either -- though you'd have to be clear about the differences between divine cult spirit magic and primitive shamanic animist magic. > The Glowline reflects a simple political boundary, and the Temple, > the Glowline, and the political reality are all tied in together and > inter-dependent. Not quite true -- consider Ormsgone Valley, contained within the Tarsh Temple's Glowline but definitely *not* a part of the Empire. ____________________ Neil Robinson asked: > I was browsing through my copies of Worms Footnotes, and had a few > questions. ^ ? ^ > WF 5: > On the map on page 33 they show the Western and Eastern Continents > (Lands of Dusk and Dawn respectively). I know the Eastern Continent > is now the Eastern Isles, but what about the Western Continent? Luathela, Land of Dusk, is prominent in the Lightbringers' Quest (see KoS) and at the end of Second Age Seshnelan History. The Luatha are *extremely* dangerous demigods (cf. Elder Secrets for details, such as they are). And Rausa is now a terrible enemy goddess to Orlanth! (Feed me lots of beer at RQCon, then ask me whose enemy she used to be). And the Empire of Vithela is still there, just East of the Eastern Isles! ___________________ David Dunham asked: > On p. 53 of Dorastor, Soulwaste the Hellwood Elf is an initiate of > Tyram. Who is this deity (or subcult)? TYRAM -- Chaos Sky God Tyram was at the head of the chaos horde that invaded the heavens. For a time he gained ground, even forcing Dayzatar back. Finally, however, Orlanth armed with thunderbolts defeated him and cast him from the Sky. Source: Tales #8, The Chaos Feature __________________ Clay Luther asked: > What are the results of possession by a severed head ghost? Best version I ever saw is in Jon Quaife's "A Tale To Tell" (in Shadows on the Borderland) -- the possessed person acts in an insane manner depending on which particular head-ghost possessed him. But INT-destroying etc. seems reasonable to me. It would be nice if the characters weren't quite sure what would happen each time -- it shouldn't become a routine thing. ______________________________ Tom Zunder said, perceptively: > I don't understand why people hate Tradetalk. > Earth has many such lingua franca. ^^^^ That's why people hate Tradetalk: Glorantha as written has just one. > I know GS will hate this but isn't Gloranthan cosmology patriarchal? > Male gods dominate Time and pre-Time, male concepts such as Death > dominate the whole essence. Perhaps it's in the nature of males to dominate, and therefore they do? ____________ Lewis wrote: > Note, that the Mostali do similar things, but do them to help repair > the World Machine. If the Mostali lost sight of this goal they might > well sink down the path of the GLs and become a menace to all of > creation (Apostate dwarves worry me!). Apostate dwarfs worry you? It's the dedicated ones that terrify me!! Have you ever considered what would happen if the Doomsday Machine started to work again, and free will, growth, organic life and other non-Mostali concepts were wiped from the world? I enjoyed your analysis of the God Learners. The Lunar Connection: has it struck you that the essential difference between the God Learners and the Lunar Empire is that the Empire has access to an infinitely-renewable energy supply? The Moon is always mythologically associated with rebirth, renewal, recycling. Could it be that the Lunar Empire hopes through limited use of Chaos to rebuild the parts of the world that its other GLesque activities are depleting? > In fact, only one regime in history has been more damaging to both the > natural world and our mythological heritage that our current capitalist, > centrally-controlled regimes and that was the Soviet communist > dictatorship. Ah, the evil Red Empire! I knew you'd have considered the Lunars ;-) ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: STEVEG@ARC.UG.EDS.COM (Steve Gilham Entropy requires no maintenance) Subject: Re: Glorantha is patriarchal Message-ID: <01H2X7IPYRMA000X58@UG.EDS.COM> Date: 13 Sep 93 19:20:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1669 Tom.Zunder@mettav.royle.org (Tom Zunder) in X-RQ-ID: 1654 asked "I know GS will hate this but isn't Gloranthan cosmology patrarchal?" Yes; which was part of my ulterior motivation for the Earth cult article that appeared in ToTRM#7 : I set myself the mischeivous aim of trying, within the contraints of the existing material (rather than taking the easy way out and ignoring it) to locate an agrarian utopia out of feminist fiction in Glorantha. I'm also fairly certain that the Sazdorf trolls show a lot of post-hoc rationalisation as the reflex "King of the Trolls" that just tripped off the tongue had to be retrofitted to the dark=female assumption. --------------------- From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton) Subject: Spirit interactions Message-ID: Date: 14 Sep 93 14:18:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1670 Re: Spirit "Combat" I agree with Greg, Graeme and David in that I feel that the spirit plane must be more than a featureless place for shamans to plunder for spells and power. I like Greg' ideas of different strategies other than POW-POW struggles, but I feel that even the Characteristics aproach is too "combat" orientated. The basic problem with spirit interaction is that it is so difficult for the normal person to know or even understand their motivations and desires. This is where the shaman is better at dealing with spirits (not defined in some nebulous "spirit combat" skill), but rather his connection to the spirit world allows him a far greater understanding of the needs, wants and desires of a spirit. Thus whereas a normal person will have culturally limited ideas of what he can do with local and cultural spirits (the spirits of the bear will be placated and aid my hunting if we daqnxe this dance and offer gifts of honey and tabbaco) more complex interactions require the specialised mediation of the shaman. Thus the shaman not only knows the local/ cultural spirits in greater detail than the average joe, but he is able to find out, via his contact with the spirit plane to understand more complex/out of the ordinary events and how to deal with them. Thus if the salmon are not running or avoiding being caught he can undertake a spirit quest to find out the source of the problem and how to propriate the spirits. This would also mean that the shaman would be able to find out about spirits not within his cultural norm through his greater knowledge gathering skills and an appreciation of general spirit motivations. How we would develope rule for this I don't know :(. But I'm willing to give it a bash (but I'll keep the rules aspect to the RQ4-playtest list. It I get something worth writing that is!) Yak -- *********************************************************************** Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted University of Natal * by one of my multiple Pietermaritzburg * personalities.... * pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs) ************************************************************************ --------------------- From: watson@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Exorcising Spirits Message-ID: <9309141212.AA18623@condor> Date: 14 Sep 93 12:12:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1671 Carl: It's fair enough to use a healing spirit to exorcise a disease spirit, but will it work on a passion spirit? What about overt possession (eg. by a ghost)? It would make healing spirits a lot more useful than I thought they were... Tom: I'd considered DI as an option for exorcising spirits but it seemed a little heavy handed. I like the idea of using cult spirits tho'. In return for doing the exorcism they might "borrow" the body for while to indulge in the worldly affairs of the cult. Greg: I'd like to hear more about the "spiritual weapons" idea. Would they be like ritual spells? Or like skills (a la Sorcery skills)? I considered introducing a spell called Exorcise (Ritual, Ceremony) which simply allowed the caster to engage in spirit combat (without actually discorporating per se). It would be available as a Divine or Sorcery spell (not Spirit Magic). Being a ritual spell it could not be used in a combat situation. (Nasty cults might use it to possess prisoners though>:->). Does this seem fair, or does it make life too easy? Another idea: Is there a qualitative difference between a discorporate shaman and any run-of-the-mill magic spirit? Call me a God Learner sympathiser, but I kinda like the idea of nasty Lunar sorcerors Summoning & Dominating shamans. Heh, and of course Binding them for use at a later date...>:-> ['scuse me while I cackle insanely...] CW. --------------------- From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried) Subject: minor points Message-ID: Date: 14 Sep 93 16:36:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1672 Greg Fried here. Donald: It seems to me that you are over-influenced by what you would expect an ADVENTURER'S motivations to be in choosing a cult. Other inhabitants of the world would have the cultural reasons given by others to join non-power-gaming cults that offer little by way of gross magic. But even with this in mind, it seems you forget that a person may be a member of SEVERAL cults. An adventurer might join a cult that offers few magical powers in order to make certain secular connections, or to honor a god, without this affecting his or her primary allegiance to the more obviously potent Orlanth, Yelmalio, etc. === Dave Henry: The next issue of John Castellucci's RQ Adventures is slated to include a scenario around the Block! DUe out around DunDraCon in February. Correct, John? GF out. --------------------- From: pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za (Peter van Heusden) Subject: Tradetalk and Bantu Message-ID: Date: 14 Sep 93 20:38:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1673 Oh damn, forgot who wrote this: > Tradetalk > --------- > > I don't understand why people hate Tradetalk. Earth has many such > lingua franca. The most obvious being Swahili and Bantu in Africa. ^^^^^^^^^ Bantu? What's Bantu? All I know Bantu as is a generic term for black, currently very out of favour. Peter ******************************************************************************* Peter van Heusden One man one newsfeed CS3, UCT, Cape Town, RSA "but I love the setting. and the hippies pvanheus@cs.uct.ac.za will be back in the fall" Red_Guest on MediaMOO --------------------- From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 3 Message-ID: <199309141648.AA02747@cool.vortech.com> Date: 14 Sep 93 06:48:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1674 > From: steve@psycho.demon.co.uk (Steve Thomas) > > Clay Luther says: (and Greg Fried seems to agree) > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >However, with the fall of the GLs, I think Issaries, without the external > >pressure of the Jrusteli to reform the cult, would return itself to its > >original (GodTime) principles IF most of the Jrusteli modified myth is > >forgotten after that time. > > Aah, but the God-Learners CHANGED the original (GodTime) principles. > The only way to find out what the 'pre-change' principles were was to talk > to someone like Ralzakark or that old fool in Tink who were there in the > first age. First, we don't know how much the GLs changed Issaries (I think not very much at all) and, second, history proves that myth is highly mutable. By your very argument, the changes wrought on Issaries by the GLs several hundred years ago may have themselves changed back by now. What is to say that Issaries didn't shed GL influence (though I think this unlikely -- like I said, I doubt the GLs affected the cult much anyway) after their demise? Certainly avatars of the god existed at the fringe of the GL influence and were probably saved from any Jrusteli-motivated change. With the GL energy destroyed or redirected from the cult, these avatars could return and "restore" or "repair" the cult. I don't see this repair as driven by any sort of intelligence or willful intent, just a natural evolution (or devolution) of the cult to bring it back to stasis. But I disagree with your assumption that the GLs could whole-heartedly change the myth without leaving some stamp. History proves that this cannot be done. Changes to myths always leave artifacts and questions. The proof: before the Jrusteli, our people did not question the myths. After the Jrusteli, the myths had been tampered with and our people could no longer agree on the truth. This is inference. If the Jrusteli were such powerful mythmagicians that they could alter the myth without detection, where do the contradictions come from? It only proves the Jrusteli were mere tinkerers and tricksters, incapable of true recreation. It also proves that Issaries escaped major Jrusteli tampering, since his myths cause very little disagreement. -- Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Ouel Stream strung on gut string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant. --------------------- From: clay@cool.vortech.com (Clay Luther) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 14 Sep 1993, part 2 Message-ID: <199309141625.AA02670@cool.vortech.com> Date: 14 Sep 93 06:25:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1675 > animals. Milk is easy, but cheese takes a minimum of processing. Anybody > know enough about primitive cheese-making to say that it could be done by a > nomadic society to whom a metal cook-pot counts as riches? (Not to mention > something difficult to carry.) The first cheeses were created by desert nomads who would place milk into bladders and hang them from their mounts. The heat and jostling would produce both butter and cheese in the bladder. > Charlie Domino -- Clay Luther clay@cool.vortech.com Software Engineer Kodak Health Imaging Systems Yelo's gift was a necklace of clam shells from the Ouel Stream strung on gut string with a delicate knot of reeds which performed the role of pendant. --------------------- From: timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com (Tim Beecher) Subject: Delecti : Vampire , Ghoul , or Amway Deterrent Message-ID: <9309141818.AA02289@timbee.rnd.symix.com.symix> Date: 14 Sep 93 18:18:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 1676 Delecti: Vampire , Ghoul , or Amway Deterrent > > > * I remember a roumour that Delecti (a surviving EWF refugee) may not realy be a > > vampire at all. If so, is he even chaotic? OK, so the upland marsh is full of > > undead, but troll use undead too so that does not imply chaos. > > > Delecti is certainly not a conventional vampire - rather than keeping > his physical body alive, he inhabits bodies of the newly dead. Perhaps Delecti > is actually more like a ghoul? But he is a Vivamort cult hero, however, so > don't read too much into him not being a vampire - I think that he is more than > a vampire, but shares many of their motivations. He has not just zombies and > skeletons and ghosts (like trolls) but vampires as well (for example, see > The attack on the Tower of the Dead in TOTRM#5) among his followers. He also > has acess to EWF knowledge, which may give him magics others are quite unaware > of. > BTW - does anybody know what his vampires feed on? Are their many > captives in the marsh (serious adventurer motivation), or do they eat > non-sentients, or summoned spirits (grumpy vampires), or perhaps Delecti has > special magics to keep them alive somehow. Perhaps they raid the ducks a lot > (no wonder ducks join Humakt)? There is an obvious answer to this . Delecti may have started as a vampire but has done Heroquesting . Heroquesting gives unique powers to individuals among other things and there is no rule against non-humans heroquesting . He has picked up some additional abilities along the way . What are the main clans of the ducks ? Swanson, Banquet , Freezer Queen , and Budget Gourmet Tim Beecher (Corporate Eurmal)